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Anonymous 2011-02-25 20:13:18
American horseshit.

I don't care.
6926
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:18:45
-1 thousand.

The war against the corporate fascist elite is global. They've taken a stand. Now can you, nationalistfag?
7051
Anonymous   +1
7064
Anonymous   +100
7078
Anonymous   +1
7245
Magnanimous 2011-02-26 09:17:27
American Nationalists and Egyptian Nationalists (thx4pizzas) are TEH CARE, and Polish Nationalists.

parent is trolling you move to productive threads
7293
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:17:16
+1^50
They can buy anything BUT US.
LEts TAKE EM DOWN
7565
Anonymous   1^50=1. Just thought you should know.
7600
Anonymous   sure, thats all any of us are
7662
Anonymous   Yes !! Boycott the product they make and They should stay out of the politics. It is Terrible!!!!
10716
Anonymous   Terrible for them to have an opinion and get involved like everyone else does?
11552
anonymous   no, just terrible for them to steal and use that money to buy elections
20491
Anonymous   agreed but its a start dont forget how the hive WORKS
7693
Anonymous   +1
7786
Anonymous   Fantastic!!! Please bring them to their knees! :):)
8622
Anonymous   oh, i do smell horseshit, coming from a Koch-paid troll... nice try sunshine
7115
Anonymous   Strawman
7167
Anonymous   koch sucker
20492
Anonymous   +1 internet.
7353
Anonymous   Its not just American horseshit! Its the WHOLE world horseshit! And its time to take a stance to reveal the truth of all the corporations & the so called elite's like the Koch Brothers, who are behind all the propaganda to destroy ALL hard working people for greed, power & control!
7475
Anonymous   the koch brother are also behind ending the patriot act and legalizing drugs/prostitution. The koch brothers have also donated far more to charity than they ever have to political causes.
7696
Che Xenuvara 2011-02-26 23:15:30
Proof?

And anything from Faux News doesn't count.
7772
tkwelge 2011-02-27 07:33:50
They donate huge amounts to Reason and the Cato institute. About once or twice a month, Reason has an article entitled, "Another Isolated Incident," in which it describes another no knock drug raid gone wrong. Reason and the Cato institute have spent vast resources raising awareness about drug law liberalization.

The Koch's have outright said that they are against the patriot act. Reason and the Cato institute both push for the total elimination of it.

Reason has come out in support of Assange, Manning, wikileaks, and anonymous!
7974
Anonymous   Anyone who pays attention to the media game knows that orgs and wealthy private individuals pay huge sums of money to PR firms to help them craft public facades. So what if these guys throw a million to the public? They are worth over $25 BILLION each. It's a drop in the bucket to them, and serves only to keep the koolaid drinkers and wannabe Birchers flush with arguments like the one you just posted. Sure, the Nazis pioneered much of the tech that the US used to get us into space. But that doesn't make them a-okay guys.
8704
Anonymous   +1
8828
Anonymous   They've donated over $600 million to non-political charities too. That's no "drop in the bucket".
9220
Anonymous 2013-06-29 17:27:13
You know very little about the Koch Brothers and obviously don't care.it doesn't seem to matterif they are trying to take your Government away from you as long as they are conservatives.
Shame on them if they take it away. Shame on you if you give it away.
60757
tkwelge   SO, even if they support a website that supports your interests 24/7 they are still an unmistakable evil? Fuuuuuuuck, you!
9453
Anonymous   how did they get so wealthy? have they never paid a penny of taxes? and, how do they get a bunch of middle-class people (tea party for one) to think they are rich i guess, because they always back the republicans who always back the top 2%. what we have is a mafia. very rich and hard hearted. and how do they get two supreme court justices to come to their meetings, with, it seems no consequences for the justices????
10751
Anonymous   Their money originally comes from Joseph Stalin. Their father invented some oil refining technique or gizmo thing that the american oil companies didn't want so he moved to the Soviet Union and got rich from Stalin. Then he came back and joined the John Birch society. The kids (the Koch brothers) expanded on their trust fund by buying more companies.
11271
anonymous   their really big money comes from stealing oil from American Indians and the Federal Government: any clown who gets pissed about "free enterprise" or other shit needs to realize the Kochs are a scam
20493
Anonymous   Only a million? Soros definitely has these guys outgunned financially.
11554
Anonymous   corporate philanthropy is a HUGE tax right off game.
8833
Anonymous   plus, you get an obituary which focuses on the few you tossed a crumb to instead of the many you raped day in, day out to earn the privilege
8884
Anonymous   obituary, somituary.... It's not so easy to get a camel through a needle. The obit really means nothing politically or eternally.
9990
Anonymous 2011-02-28 14:14:42
cultural memory - crafting narratives

only means nothing if you're oblivious to the significance of these factors in shaping the understanding of the present

pretty sure Orwell had something to say about how that worked
10077
Anonymous   Wouldn't this be a great way to win over the young & recruit Libertarians? I could never understand why Ron Paul supports small government yet supports taking a way a woman's rights to choose which = big government! Oxymoron!
8841
tkwelge   Ron Paul is not the libertarian jesus.
9450
Anonymous   That depends on whether you think life begins at conception or not. In his mind it is no more an act of big government than laws prohibiting murder in general. Everywhere else (fiscal, social, foreign, and monetary policy) he's dead on libertarian.
11456
Anonymous   60 responses later namefag is rather fail and obvious
9130
AnonymousALSO 2011-03-04 12:03:21
You do not understand their game at all. All of these groups that you mention love AYN RAND and her phony philosophy, objectivism. They love her books. Have you ever read them? They are textbooks on how to become a sociopath. Jennifer Burns, one of the only non-Randians to write about Ayn, discovered from Rand's own notes that her "heroes" were modelled after a man that Rand worshipped from afar: William Hickman. William Hickman was a SERIAL KILLER. Rand worshipped him because he "did not let the feelings of other interfere with his needs."
Hickman gutted and drained the blood from a 12 year old girl back in the 1920s. Then he stitched her head back onto its neck and her eyelids open. He drove the carcass to a meeting with her father who was going to pay Hickman a ransom to get his beloved daughter back. When the father handed the money to Hickman, he gunned the car and kicked the dead body out onto the pavement
If that horrifies you, then you should not be exposing yourself to the horrible anti-human stuff that comes out of those alleged "think tanks" for Libertarians and fascists.
14634
Anonymous   Is that all you do? Just define opposing views out of existence by declaring they don't count?
11461
Anonymous 2011-02-27 02:32:09
CHARITIES- Opera houses, museum fountains,big pharma hospitals,
WHEN do YOU attend the Kennedy center and new york Opera???
its all show and FOR the filthy rich. FOR THE 1%
7833
RV   Actually it is possible to go to the City Opera at Linclon Center for 25 bucks. Not all that cheap but no more than entrance to lots of Rock clubs in the City. I love Opera which was originally a popular art form.
8760
Anonymous   liberty for guantanamo prisioneries
9627
Anonymous 2011-02-27 12:59:48
You LIKE the patriot act??
And, NO they oppose ending the patriot act.
Read up, sparky.
8499
tkwelge   Yes, they have donated to politicians that oppose repealing the patriot act, but they have also donated vast sums of money to organizations that are 100% for ending the patriot act. Why don't you fucking read up? This mindless populism is such bullshit....
8559
Anonymous   No, they gave $10 million to the ACLU for legal funds to go after parts the Patriot Act.
9225
tkwelge   That too. They have their fingers in a lot of pies.
9456
Anonymous 2011-02-28 14:15:58
ahhh, the privileges of the super-wealthy

good thing they're such great guys, or we'd all be fucked
10080
Mike 2011-02-28 16:33:54
Either a Koch shill or you brainwash easy. I won't go into details how full of it you are, but anyone can read these articles for starters -- just google their name and there's a ton more -- and find out why they're against the Patriot Bill - not because they care about civil liberties, it's all those added regulations on who they can do business with . Legalize pot -- sure, but grasp this if you can. It's not about the pot it's about the hemp. Done any research on why pot is illegal? I did and it's a fascinating story. In the 20's and early 30's fossil fuels were battling a hemp based vegetable oil fuel that was cleaner and cheaper. Anybody who's interested can read how they made pot illegal, but we know they did and we know how -- lies and bigotry. It worked for the power elites in 1934 and it works for them in 2011 -- and there's always people who'll try and twist the story and get the fools to support positions that are directly against their own interest. Like the poor Tea Party, which they fund.
Did I mention anybody talks about their inherent goodness is a fool?

http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2946/

http://www.kcet.org/shows/socal_connected/undertheinfluence/energy/money-and-media-tracking-the-koch-brothers-influence.html

http://www.thekochfoundation.org/faqs.html

http://proamlib.blogspot.com/2011/02/cato-institute-koch-brothers-rupert.html

http://www.askheritage.org/

http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-33228-itrss-time-to-hit-koch-brothers-where-it-hurts-their-wallets.html

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/climate/airship-exposes-koch-brothers-secretive-meeti/blog/32742

http://www.observer.com/2010/daily-transom/how-libertarian-koch-bros-benefit-corporate-welfare

They are scum. Go peddle your papers on another street.
10276
Anonymous 2011-03-01 22:17:40
http://www.aolnews.com/discuss/2011/02/28/opinion-the-lefts-unhealthy-koch-habit

Now with that in mind, explain why they should be feared more than George Soros.
11458
Anonymous   Read the history of the liberal project and you'll understand where Soros is coming from. It's not all evil trilateral shit. Now read the history of the Koch's brand of wild-west capitalism - they're about bringing back the gilded age and peasant labor and their right to rape the planet regulation-free.
40681
Anonymous   I can hardly believe that after what was found out about the prospective purchasing of the WI power providers.
9134
Anonymous Boomer 2011-02-28 03:25:01
You speak inversely - mirrorspeaking. KochSucker!!!

Don't be a koch-addict!!!

9366
Anonymous 2011-03-01 22:33:45
Indeed! Don't rely on them as your devil!

http://www.aolnews.com/discuss/2011/02/28/opinion-the-lefts-unhealthy-koch-habit
11468
Anonymous   If the people behind the effort to undermine Scott Walker's brave stance had guts, they wouldn't be anonymous. I hope and pray you get hacked and revealed. The truth is that workers in the government would do better under Walker's plan because they could buy health insurance from the state, they could get performance rewards and the lousy teachers wouldn't be able to stay, keeping jobs more talented workers deserve. Enough of these handouts and the state/country will be bankrupt. I realize liberals don't understand economics (so research has repeatedly shown) because they can't see numbers they only see ideology, but at some point they have to learn to count.
9392
Anonymous   the states and country is going bankrupt thanks to the greedy, self-interested republicans who allow people like the kochs to rape and pillage the system so they can put their names on arenas and buildings.
9544
Anonymous   Lest we forget, under Clinton, His understanding of economics left the next President a surplus... Yeah, right, we don't understand economics. A bunch of horse hooey if you ask me!
9839
Anonymous   Economically a surplus/deficit has nothing to do with the economic welfare of a Nation. Eliminating "National Debt" will not help alleviate a recession. In fact increasing Government spending (and therefor borrowing and debt) will increase the GDP of the Nation making the average citizen better off...this is Macro Theory 101. It's not to hard. That said...Busch is an Idiot and fucked us pretty hard. But not enough to destroy the country.
10266
Anonymous 2011-02-28 17:38:45
heh - try running that economic policy with a currency that isn't the default global reserve

no, seriously, it's not that far off - how do you think you'll go selling the 'deficits don't matter' line when the world doesn't need to buy your currency to buy commodities, and has no directly consequential interest in buying your debt to prevent the collapse of the reserves they currently hold?

the only(?) thing that has prevented this from already happening is the example made of Iraq for choosing to switch to the euro in late 2000

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1095057.html

looks like Bush bought you some time, but at what cost?
10353
Anonymous   It may be hard for USfags to appreciate, but they've been the welfare problem of the rest of the world for decades now, running utterly irresponsible domestic policies which would destroy any other nation on Earth, but because of their place at the centre of the undeclared empire, the rest of us have to keep propping you up so you'll be able to keep consuming more than you need, so the rest of us can have a fighting chance at getting just enough.
10362
Anonymous   lol
10536
Anonymous   The economic situation or "crisis" are the result of the greedy doings of the richest among us. Now they want to blame workers who had no hand in making the crisis. You should learn to count.
9948
Anonymous   No they weren't. Look up Peter D. Schiff who stood up to the rest of the media who denied that any impending crisis was on it's way.
12212
Anonymous   Why do the Republicans smell blood when some middle class employees get a living wage but they are silent when the thieves in wall street steal billions. Have you heard them demonstrate when the hedge funds play games to steel the money from retirement accounts every 5-7 years? did they demonstrated when Madoff ripped off people?
10026
Anonymous   Politicians don't understand economics. Liberal, Conservative, w/e. And why exactly would the Nation go bankrupt? we are over 1 trillion in debt... we seem to be doing fine though as our GDP growth rate is back up to the 3.5ish range were we like to sit and seems to be rising since the crisis of 2007 (btw...the crisis ended 2 years ago in '09 so people are just complaining over nothing but anyway). Government spending is good and one of the few/best options available to a government in order to alleviate a repression. Maybe you should learn to count before you claim this stolen knowledge to be your own and insult an entire ideology of people. (seeing as you gave no reason for some of your claims I am only assuming you took this from someone, probably a new reporter who also had no idea what they were talking about. If I am wrong I do apologize, but I doubt I am)
10286
Anonymous 2011-02-28 17:11:48
Just for the record, you're kinda proving his point... How exactly do you claim to know economics and yet write about us being "1 trillion in debt"...? The US govt is over 14 trillion in debt, and if you add private debt its over 55 trillion.

And how in the WORLD can you say that "we're doing fine"!?! Unemployment is still high, the housing market still sucks, and we haven't brought back financial regulations to prevent the EXACT SAME THING from happening again. Not to mention we haven't punished any of the people who caused this mess! You're like a child who hasn't learned object permanence. As soon as the toy is no longer in sight, it no longer exists.

I agree about your point on govt spending, and clearly this guy above doesn't know anything about economics (studies show), but don't help him out by saying something stupid. Also, its a "recession", not a "repression"...
10323
Anonymous 2011-02-28 18:05:17
The 1 was a typo I didn't care to fix. The recession/repression thing was auto correct/dyslexia. By "doing fine" I mean that we are not all going to die. It is not the end of the world and we are getting better. The economy IS healing; albeit slowly. As for punishing people, in all probability they had good reasons for doing what they did. Yes they were probably being selfish but everyone being selfish leads to a stable economy so there is no need to punish. Also, you are implying that someone is at fault. Blame can be (and as historians/analysts write about this you will see) put on almost anything with at least some credibility. "Busch fucked it up", "Obama said he would fix it", "The democrat say he'll fix everything the republican fucked up. The republican says he'll fix everything the democrat fucked up. Who's lyin' to us? Somebody's lying. WHO?"-Sondheim 'Assasins' (Sorry, listening to it now and it just fits so perfectly) I think looking to blame is the wrong way to go about this.

Also, although it is not my way to attack other people but rather attack their arguments, you attacked me so I will reciprocate, the "object permanence" argument no longer holds much water. Studies strongly suggest that humans are born with understanding of object permanence and the idea that they gain it comes from...well I don't want to explain it but basically they found that the children were responding to an authority figure rather than loosing interest in the toys.
10370
Anonymous 2011-03-02 09:36:47
From a perspective outside of the borders of the USA. Normally I keep my mouth shut but I felt impelled just now.

Fact;
The 2010 USA debt is 98.6% of the 2010 USA GDP. What that means is the USA, every citizen, every govt etc would if the markers were called in just barely be able to pat the debt off. But that assumes they don't need to eat or pay bills, etc. for an entire year.

The deficit is the amount added to the national debt. A surplus, is not extra spending money, it's money that goes to pay down the debt. If it wasn't for the Soc.Sec suplses the deficits would be a lot higher. And there's a lot that doesn't end up in the 'official' deficit calculations, like the billions used to prop up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (USA govt housing loan corporations)

Fact; the debt was decreasing until Bush was in office.

In 2001 a suplus was posted, meaning that some of the DEBT got paid off. Since then the USA has posted a deficit every single year, mostly due to the oil grab escapade in Iraq.

Bush was indeed responsible for that and it's accompaning costs. (approximatly 65% of the current debt is his fault) {do your research}

--

There are several false economies in the USA. There was the dot com one, then the banking one, then the real estate, and a number of other minor ones. These are bubbles. When they burst the ecomony 'resets' to approxamatly the 'actual' levels. They are not a recession. They are a correction.

The USA has recently suffered a 'correction' due to the false real estate bubble collapsing and the inability of the government to ease the transition back to 'normal' because it has no funds. (and what they did have went mainly to bail out the banks)

--

If the USA had no debt then the money used to pay the interest on the debt, could be used to pay for programs that are now currently funded. Note I'm not saying new programs, just existing ones. Not having to pay interest means you wouldn't need to pay as much taxes. You would also be able to ride out the economic corrections. The lefties could have their programs and the righties could have their smaller less-tax govt.

--

In spite of the financial buzz about recession etc, it's really a correction. It may look like a recession but only because it dropped and has not 'recovered' to the falsely inflated pre-bubble-bursting level.

--

Canada by way of comparison had posted significant growth for every year of the last two decades. They are worried about inflation, not recession. Their system doesn't allow 'bubbles'. It works out to a surplus of +4%

Britain has a 'scandalous' deficit of 12% of GDP reported but really it's -7.5%

Same for France; -7.5%
Germany a little worse at -8.3%
China at almost -10%

That's the normal 'global recession' level.

Japan with it's finacial sector and subsequent fallout woes is at -24.8%

And the worst of all the G12 nations is the USA at 25.6%

---

Bush did indeed 'fuck it up'
12022
Anonymous   Sorry typo; "And the worst of all the G12 nations is the USA at -25.6%"

12024
Anonymous 2013-03-01 12:34:48
You are very correct. Nice to see that someone else gets it! And what Bush and other presidents/congresses have done are absolutely irresponsible to the american people. They are, on the other hand, extremely profitable to the 1%.

This is why we need to start boycotting these entities. The Koch Bros. are as good of a place to start a anywhere. I personally, would like to bring down Dutch Shell (They are literally shooting people to get there oil (I know, the US did the same in Iraq... military industrial complex, etc.).

The point is we need to take down the financial giants that are destroying democracy and doing criminal, unethical, and environmental atrociousness around the world.

Let's get busy!
54238
Mike 2011-02-28 16:57:38
Your are a stitch, you are.
After 30 years of conservative naked free markets, deregulation, tax cuts but increase spending, and privitization nearly tanked the entire world economy -- and don't tell me about how much Clinton is too blame -- I'd only agree with you -- the man is about as liberal as Obama has turned out to be.
You've got the brass to bring up libs don't understand numbers?? They know you don't cut taxes twice and then start two wars and run them off the books.
HANDOUTS?? To working people?
Forgot, silly me, they're only for Wall Street and Big Business ,
Lousy teachers? I went with a teacher for 3 years and it amazes me they can even find teachers.. 30, 35 kids and you in a room. You work so much at night and on weekends your hourly wage works out to about what you'd get if you hadn't run up all that tuition.
Scott Walker and his brave attempt to sell his state out to the Koch Bros.
I realize cons have to deal in lies because if they told what they were really about even the dunces would catch on, but you are a world class liar and toadie.
You're the one with no guts, hiding behind an honorable name and spouting idiocy, Mr/Ms Toadie.
Hop away now. Hop.
10309
Anonymous   Nicely put
10359
Anonymous 2011-02-28 18:01:32
"American politics has been hijacked by a tiny coterie of right-wing economic extremists, some of them ideological zealots, others merely greedy, a few of them possibly insane. The scope of their triumph is breathtaking. Over the course of the last three decades, they have moved from the right-wing fringe to the commanding heights of the national agenda. Notions that would have been laughed at a generation ago--that cutting taxes for the very rich is the best response to any and every economic circumstance or that it is perfectly appropriate to turn the most rapacious and self-interested elements of the business lobby into essentially an arm of the federal government--are now so pervasive, they barely attract any notice.

The result has been a slowmotion disaster. Income inequality has approached levels normally associated with Third World oligarchies, not healthy Western democracies. The federal government has grown so encrusted with business lobbyists that it can no longer meet the great public challenges of our time. Not even many conservative voters or intellectuals find the result congenial. Government is no smaller--it is simply more debt-ridden and more beholden to wealthy elites."

http://www.tnr.com/article/feast-the-wingnuts
10366
Anonymous   You are a fool
10724
Anonymous   Not American. Corporations of this size are legally recognized as their own entities, much the same way nations are. This is a UN charter. If you think they aren't playing these games in your back yard, think again.
7925
Anonymous  
Make sure Kochbrothers do not stop printing the Georgia pacific emblem on there products. As to go incognito to confuse the consumer. I don't trust these bastahds.
8329
jaevkasvenske   I challenge you, Legion, to show them the point from which the hand of power flows. I yearn to see you succeed, as I wait to see you really show the world what it means to fight the machine. Ta Vare
8973
Anonymous   Thank you anonymous for being on the little guys side.
9076
Anonymous 2011-02-28 03:11:44
The powerful and politically connected teachers unions are not the "little guys".

Extra Credit Hint: They are willing to sacrifice their member's pay and benefits to make sure their monopolistic gravy train of automatically deducted fees keeps rolling in.
9352
Truth Hurts   You tell 'em.
9401
Anonymous   ANONYMOUS IS THE LITTLE GUYS? YOU SIR ARE WRONG
10510
Anonymous 2011-02-27 21:12:04
Do not forget to boycott these as well:
http://www.invista.com/en/brands/index.html

Invista is owned by Koch. Do not buy any clothing that contains these fabrics. Most clothing will contain tags touting the fact that the fabrics are used.

Reposting this to put it at the top of the list.
9118
Anonymous   boycott? gtfo, nypa. moral faggotry.
9161
Anonymous   I made a list of the boycott items this list was posted on Altnet by me and some one must posted it again I am glad.Also will post this on facebook in europe.
9325
Anonymous   Well aren't you just special.
10697
Anonymous 2011-02-25 20:20:51
boycotts?

gtfo.
6930
Anonymous   sage
8452
Anonymous   LOL you think Koch Industries reach includes only America?
6941
Anonymous   American issue: try harder to make the world care.
6942
Anonymous   Does that mean people being massacred in Libya is a Libyan issue?

6943
Anonymous   Not arguing. Anon is fickle. Post more, defend more, boycotts are a start.
6947
Anonymous 2011-02-25 21:48:33
American Gov is controlled by American Corps - American people take back their Gov, American Gov starts caring more about what's happening within its borders rather than "making the world safe for America's interests abroad"

Win - Win

(+ greedy evil bastards taken down - EPIC WIN!)
6959
Anonymous   +1
6993
Anonymous   +1000
7566
Anonymous   WHy does the US have a higher corporate tax than many European countries?
7712
Anonymous   loopholes
7856
Anonymous   Because only 16% of US corporations pay ANY tax to the Federal Government. The short-fall of the other 84% has to be made up somewhere.
8078
Anonymous   -2 for math fail
9978
Anonymous   +1
7793
Anonymous   bitch you be trollin'!
8454
Anonymous 2013-03-01 12:50:12
Exactly! It's Imperialism in a new form run by corporations. US corps are not the only ones. This is an international problem and we need to think globally. Take down the Corps and the rest will start falling in line. All they care about is money and power. If you take away the money, they loose the power. Like I said. The Koch Bros. are good a place to start as any. J.P. Morgan used to talk to the president on a regular basis. Now the Federal Reserve does. Same Bull Shit, different rapper.

Boycott Boycott Boycott Boycott Boycott Boycott
54239
Anonymous 2011-02-25 21:55:54
The Koch brothers (for obvious reasons, given their coal connections) have been at the forefront of funding climate-science denialism.

Knock them off their perch, discredit the 'thinktanks' and FUD-pumpers they've employed to pollute the discourse with ignorance and fear, and the world is closer to being able to do something about climate change.
6962
Anonymous   FUD means womans genitals in my country :)
7473
Anonymous   /me puts in application for 'FUD-pumper' job in ur country :P
7496
Anonymous 2011-02-27 12:50:01
"/me" is such a second life thing to do LOL.

I about choked when I saw the Fud-pumper comment too. Nice little giggle there in a sea of frustration with everything today and the past 12 days :(

- Wisconsin True
8476
Truth Hurts   What a ridiculous comment. Even the scientists don't agree. Now stopping pollution is a wise move as it causes disease and hurts our environment but climate change? Who knows, dumb platform that distracts from the real issue - pollution.
9410
Anonymous   you got your FUD pumped good, huh?

10088
Anonymous 2011-03-02 09:58:48
95% of the scientists agree global warming is a fact.

Many don't get involved in the politics. Those paid mouthpieces that deny it are in the vast minority, but are far more vocal than the silent majority.

Disagreements are mostly about how bad it's going to be and what needs to be done when. Not about what is happening and the FACT of global warming.

12027
Anonymous   +1000
7623
Anonymous   The european boycott list for Koch is longer than the american boycott list. Dunno where you're from, but their products are probably in your house as you write that you don't care. BTW, they thank you for your indifference/support.
7405
Anonymous   But the British do care-. They have had as much trouble with him as we have
7412
Anonymous   How can we find out what all is on that boycott list for EU?
9141
Anonymous   This is an American issue. Although we are honored that the world sees our pain, here in Madison, WI we feel we can take care of our own. If only Koch Ind, did not declare war openly on the citizens of WI. Send loving thoughts to us as we learn the hard lessons due to a society that has been dumbed down.
7548
Anonymous   They are trying to astroturf our capital rotunda!
7569
Anonymous   They've declared war on the citizens of WI? I don't see how. THe Kochs do not equal Walker. I'm sure that they are for his ending public sector unions and cheaper access to the utilities that they could profit off of, but I don't see how that is equivalent to waging war on the people of WI.
7705
Anonymous   They and other corporate scum are all about union busting/ taking the voice away from the workers. All workers not just union. Lower wages = more profit , Lower health care benefits = more profit . I live in a state that has no union voice. Teachers have had a pay freeze for 4 yrs and their health care benefits have been cut drastically. We have all become the working poor.
8815
Anonymous   They are waging war on the middle class! WI is what helped to wake American workers up! Concern how long that will last as we are use to remaining in the dark since Reagan. They are all about money, greed & power. Similar to the all dictators. They don't care about the working class all they care about is squashing us & slave labor & profits. Same narcissistic characteristics as the Middle East dictators! .
8858
Magnanimous   Includes European subsidiaries as well - #readfail
7294
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:53:07
You are right this is happening all over the world!
Exp. Raising UK college tuition's: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-09/world/britain.student.protests_1_police-officers-police-van-protest?_s=PM:WORLD
Greece: http://topnews360.tmcnet.com/topics/associated-press/articles/2011/02/26/148721-greek-strike-disrupts-flights-cripples-services.htm
Italy:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/23/world/europe/23italy.html
Basically they want to keep us dumb slave laborers. I believe all this New World Order & Illuminati BS are side distractions for the ignoramuses to blame something else when its just plain old corporate greed & power & the top 2% of the world's wealthiest elite!
7318
Anonymous 2011-02-25 20:56:00
fellow anons,
im an euro-fag but had an eye on wisconsin for a while. have a look at it, this is important. it could easily spread over the whole country, its all about fuck corporatism, power to the people. us-zombies are awaken. good coverage at huffingtonpost.

tl;dr
poor release, serious topic
6944
Anonymous   +1
6946
Anonymous   +1
6950
Anonymous   +1
6955
Anonymous   +1
6960
Anonymous   the bill has nothing to do with corporations you idiots.
7013
Anonymous   corporations are not the subject of the bill, but they ARE its object
7019
Anonymous   link to the bill where it talks about selling the utilities or stfu
7026
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:44:44
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/JR1SB-11.pdf

starting top of page 24

but selling utilities is not even close to the whole story
7030
Riann   Thank You, most people who support Walker have not even read the bill, or do not have the capacity to understand the language, I'm not saying this in a mean way. cuts to education will help maintain this public illiteracy, it all works together
9386
Anonymous   +1000000
9515
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:48:53
Orly?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/21/947947/-The-Koch-Brothers-End-Game-in-Wisconsin

"SECTION 44. 16.896 of the statutes is created to read:
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling,
and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the

department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may

contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without

solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best

interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or

certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to

purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is

considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification

of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b)."

cakenowfag?
7032
Anonymous   I just wanted to you find it for me. It really doesn't matter. Utilities are heavily regulated and even having a monopoly would not allow them to ratchet up costs or increase profits. Turning them private isn't a big deal.
7045
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:16:41
Bullshit. As if will all the other shit they're trying to pull, they'd never figure out a way to unregulate the utilities.

You dumb capitalist cunt.
7050
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:40:22
I am a capitalist. OH NOEZ I'M EVIL!

Utilities have been regulated since at least 1978, and EVIL corporations haven't found a way to unregulate them.
7074
Anonymous   yeah, no deregulation mania sweeping governments for the last 30 years. spot on analysis there, champ.
7079
Anonymous   How have the governments of the last 30 years been doing? Sweet debt load bro.
7095
Anonymous   racking up public debt, while shifting public assets to private ownership... sweet game if you're the one rigging it
7096
Anonymous   Yes, Government as a share of GDP sure has shrunk.
7103
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:49:51
tax cuts pay for themselves!

lol

7406
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:14:30
I think that these "public assets" could be better used privately. Yes "deregulation" as it has occurred in the US has been a disappointment, but that is primarily because it isn't so much deregulation as it is crony capitalism. True deregulation would look quite different.

All the bill said was that the department could decide on the price. If it was decided that the assets could be more effective in private hands, wouldn't make sense to let a company have them for cheap to get started on things?

The bidding process can be a big sham too. It might even be more lucrative to the govt if it lets the dept decide on the price.
7707
Anonymous   "sweet game if you're the one rigging it"
7801
Anonymous   Remember ENRON!???
7837
tkwelge   Enron and California "deregulation" was deregulation in name only.
7976
Anonymous 2011-02-27 10:11:39
so they still have all their regulations?

no? that's coz they were deregulated

8244
tkwelge   No, they still have a lot of regulations and the government has stacked the deck. I guess I should have said that "deregulation" isn't the same think as privatization.
8324
Anonymous   not the same thing, but fellow travellers with a shared destination: ostensibly freeing up the smooth operation of markets to deliver maximum benefits for minimum cost - they may even do that when implemented appropriately, but that's not the reason plutocrats like the Koch's are so fond of that particular game, is it?
8363
tkwelge   I don't care why they the koch's do what they do. They are completely within their rights. They are simply politically active. There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to elect the people that they fund. You don't have to elect the people who push the koch's agenda. There is no break down of democracy occurring at all.
8569
Anonymous 2011-02-27 15:20:32
'we the people', in 1776, did not include corporations for a couple of good reasons, one of which is that there is no sense in which they can be said to be created equal to people - they exist to channel wealth to productive purposes, and, in so doing, amass enormous economic and social power, but with none of the restraints which naturally limit the capacity of individuals to accumulate influence on such a scale within a political system designed to prevent precisely that

as a result, there is no meaningful recourse to arguments grounded in democratic principle

this corporate dominance arose not through design, but market forces most completely described by ronald coase in 'the nature of the firm', and operating within the 'red in tooth and claw' parameters of capitalism, failure to fully exploit any given 'commons' does not avert the 'tragedy', only delivers the profits to another

the crux of the argument is that this agglomeration of relatively (to Govt) unchecked power has managed to skew the processes of democracy so thoroughly that all that remains is mere public ceremony
8710
Anonymous   +1,000,000
9005
tkwelge   I don't disagree that our current system is plenty corporatist. That's not really what we are discussing here. Koch industries is actually a privately held company, unlike a true "corporation." Nobody is arguing that corporations should be able to rule anything. The argument is that the Koch's have the right to support whatever interests they like. If you don't like it, don't vote for their interests! Then again, voting against something just because the Koch's are in favor of it is stupid.
9464
Anonymous 2011-02-28 14:06:03
the point you're apparently making is that they should be less restricted than a public company whose board has to answer to (pseudodemocratic - votes attach to shares, not individuals) AGMs

this is a little astounding, because you're conceding the only ground which could be argued to save what they're doing from characterisation as pure oligarchical self-interest - just the kind (minus the shroud of aristocracy) which has sparked democratic revolutions throughout history
10070
Anonymous 2011-02-28 16:19:38
-1,000,000

Corporations are not people and should have no rights other than conducting commerce. Money has polluted the system so that 'We the People" are no longer represented. Howard Zinn predicted this in A People's History of the U.S. (Chapter 24: The Coming Revolt of the Guards). We saw this today when the police joined the sit-in strike in the capital of Wisconsin.

‎"...the Establishment cannot survive without the obedience and loyalty of millions of people who are given small rewards to keep the system going: the soldiers and police, teachers and ministers, administrators and social workers, technicians and production workers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, transport and communications workers, garbage men and firemen. These people-the employed, the somewhat privileged-are drawn into alliance with the elite. They become the guards of the system, buffers between the upper and lower classes. If they stop obeying, the system falls. " -Howard Zinn

10255
Anonymous   we sure have been watching just this dynamic playing out in the Maghreb of late
10411
Anonymous   sniff...sniff. I smell right-wing bullshit!
9082
Anonymous   No, it's just your own scent you're picking up on.
11514
Anonymous   Ah yes, Eron. A key supporter of the Kyoto protocol I might add...
11511
Anonymous 2011-02-26 03:33:15
Prolly be doing better if not totally run into the ground and defunded by billionaires lobbying for tax cuts and deregulation.

We're behind the looking glass here ppl!
7116
Anonymous   Hey Tard! Ever heard of ENRON?
7466
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:50:21
"Electricity deregulation was supposed to bring cheaper electricity prices and more choice of suppliers to householders. Instead it has brought wildly volatile wholesale prices and undermined the reliability of the electricity supply. The rising electricity prices and blackouts in California and the northeastern states of the US are consequences of the changes engineered by vested interests; changes that were accomplished through a massive PR campaign to deceive politicians and opinion leaders about their benefits."

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2003Q3/dereg.html
7087
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:56:07
"Despite efforts to manufacture an appearance of grassroots support, deregulation was primarily driven by ... energy companies, who thought they could make money out of it...

The case for deregulation could not be presented in self-interested terms to the public. It had to be presented as being in the interests of the wider public.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, helped spread the rationale for deregulation. Texas Congressman Thomas DeLay set out his "free-market vision" for the electricity industry at a Heritage Foundation lecture"

Hey wow - Heritage Foundation... where do they get their money again?

And Tom Delay - he's in prison, right?
7091
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:36:04
Texas deregulation wasn't all that bad. Yeah, the price went up, but operating costs went up even higher. The price increases were necessary to pay for the extra infrastructure to keep up with Texas's growing population and hot summers.

The wikipedia page on electricity deregulation in Texas shows that is far from a failure.
7730
Anonymous   The point isn't about the merits of the argument over deregulation, but in the way public discourse is manipulated to provide cover for the implementation of hidden (but entirely predictable) agendas.
7805
tkwelge   How is public discourse being manipulated? All I see is a bunch of individuals behaving in a way that they see fit.
8572
Anonymous   self interest != enlightened self interest

8714
tkwelge   Never said that...... Sigh...
9471
Anonymous 2011-02-28 14:23:31
you don't see it as necessarily implied???

'in a way they see fit' != self interest?

10093
Anonymous   ->9000 e-points for using wikipedia as a source. Gimmie 20 minutes and it will tell you that Texas Deregulation resulted in free puppies for all non-latino residents of Texas and WW2.
8444
tkwelge   It's factual information. Unlike you asshats, I don't care where the information comes from as long as it is accurate. Show me evidence that it is inaccurate or GTFO
8576
Anonymous 2011-02-27 19:14:23
Heh, asshats and pointing to a wiki that begins with:

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.

* It is missing citations or footnotes. Please help improve it by adding inline citations. Tagged since December 2006.
* Its neutrality is disputed. Tagged since March 2008.
* It may contain original research or unverifiable claims. Tagged since April 2010.
* Its factual accuracy is disputed. Tagged since March 2008.

This article needs attention from an expert on the subject. See the talk page for details. WikiProject Law or the Law Portal may be able to help recruit an expert. (November 2008)

Hehe, "But I heared it from my hero and personal lord and savior, Glen Beck. He be always telled the truth."
9030
Anonymous 2011-02-27 19:28:07
lol

+1 more nail in a coffin full of #proselytisefail
9035
tkwelge   Fuck you, you unthinking slime. That is not evidence that I am wrong. That is simply evidence that some people want to bitch about the wikipedia entry. Put up, or shut up. NO? Fuck off then. Not one of you has actually even tried to debate or discuss with me. It's all, "The Koch's! Corporashuns! Derrrr!"
9466
Anonymous 2011-02-28 14:27:09
you claim it's 'factual information', while the source you cite disptues its own factual accuracy

and we're unthinking slime?

you got some balls, brother
10099
Anonymous   Wisconsin isn't in the northeast! It's not California either.
7570
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:46:41
nor is it 2003, but I think there might be a lesson in there somewhere, if you look hard enough

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2003Q3/dereg.html
7584
Anonymous   Wisconsin's energy supply also isn't dominated by private companies that put profits first, yet, the way it is in California or the North East. That's a big part of the point.
7603
Anonymous 2011-03-02 00:28:27
California never had electricity deregulation:

http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=347

But here's what it did have:

http://mises.org/mobile/daily.aspx?Id=969
11518
Anonymous 2011-02-26 03:31:57
Yeah, you keep somehow defending the same octopus that wants to regulate free speech, while deregulating all the things that make our lives manageable, like retirements and healthcare.

You can't support one tentacle without thinking about the other.

No you're not evil. You're stupid. Capitalism is evil. You're just it's bitch.
7114
Anonymous   +1
7201
Anonymous   +1
7231
Anonymous   +>9000
7469
Anonymous   +1
7408
Anonymous   Who is trying to regulate free speech?
7715
Anonymous   Semicolon Powell
8082
Anonymous   +37.5
8450
Wisconsin True   +1
8496
Anonymous 2011-03-02 14:20:22
Capitalism doesn't mean being FORCED to pay for things you don't use or approve of. That would be government in action.

Government can't be trusted to regulate our system anymore than we can trust it to invade the right country (or avoid that altogether).
12217
Anonymous 2011-02-26 07:08:58
Bullshit - I used to work for a 'regulated' US utility, owned by a larger foreign utility.

When they didn't think what they wanted me to do was legal, they had me sign a huge non-disclosure, go to work at a different office, and told me that if anyone asks, you work for EuroPower LTD.

In most large industries I've worked in, I've consistently felt that more energy and $ was wasted fighting regulation than just complying would.

Or just conducting the business in a decent, ethical fashion to begin with would, but businesses do not self-regulate as some would have us believe.
7222
Magnanimous 2011-02-26 09:22:48
It is truly said that a bunch of Anonymous can self regulate better than some graduate of MBA school.

Up the Anons!
7298
Anonymous   Who said Anons self regulate at all
7889
Anonymous   get logins to anon.
7472
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:11:29
Cough cough Enron.

Cough cough rolling blackouts.
7516
Anonymous   It is only a matter of time, Capitilisem is on its last gasp. The average working person in this country knows Wall Sreet is fixed, Big Business is only interested in the bottom line with no regard for the average person.Small business owners do not pay there fair share of taxes.The banks are corrupt. The system is rotten and know everyone knows it. It will come down.It is not if but when it comes down.
9576
Anonymous   +1
7083
Anonymous   1+
7364
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:28:29
True even if they bought the assets through no bid contracts that in the end turned out to be at no profit or benefit to the taxpayers, by USA standards thats just business as usual, that this would pave the way for them to put the hotel on their vertical monopoly though seems to make it a bit more of a deal maybe?

http://www.kochind.com/factsSheets/WisconsinFacts.aspx
7061
Anonymous   You ever heard on Enron?
7261
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:43:14
LOL ya, google ye Enron. oh wise newfag
or if your an american and can't read there is a movie...
oh ya have a look @ this while your at it http://bit.ly/gRKeqH
7359
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:02:05
I can't see how swearing, name calling and threats have anything to t do with defeating the Kochs.

If you want to help get rid of these guys you and all of us have to find ways to bother them. They are not about to be concerned about a group of people who use swearing and name calling to communicate,
7415
Anonymous   Massive pagan party with mandatory abortions in the bible belt ought to be a start.
7949
Anonymous   Enron?
7361
Anonymous   Researching for yourself sure is hard.
7447
Anonymous   lol
7193
Anonymous 2011-02-27 05:45:02
But the Koch brothers are funding Walker, and want him to pass the bill. Anything that affects unions affects corporate interests.... it's not about the bill's headline. It's about chipping away at any regulations or protections that exist which undermine the ability for the wealthiest 1% to take everything they can without regard for the dignity and well-being of the general public.
And perhaps you could refer to the headline regarding this issue- there is a rider which would allow the Koch brothers to take our land.
7924
tkwelge   Except we aren't even talking about private sector unions!!! We aren't discussing unions that are trying to protect themselves from some evil capitalist, we are talking about unions that have a captive customer base and are not subject to market calculation.
8584
Anonymous 2011-03-02 10:29:55
The union members only make a modest wage off the work they do.
That wage is the single biggest cost of any business. Decreasing it means more corporate dividends and bigger summer homes on private islands for corporate officers. The money either will go to the workers or to the corporates. What this is really about is whether you side with the elite few or the working many.

It really is as simple as that.

What you may not realize is that in the transfer of the ownership, the workers cease being employees of the company. They are after all employees of the state who happen to work at that utility. They are not Koch employees.
They would have to be hired by the Corp. Union busting at it's easiet. The workers lose all benefits and seniority and in essence all go back to starting at minimum wage.
In that regard, the corporation thereby is deserving of the 'evil' appellation.
12049
Anonymous   Excuse me idiot. This has everything to do with corporations, cheap labor with nothing to fight for such as safe working conditions 40 hr work weeks, workmans comopensation, weekends off, overtime pay. That doesn't even start to mention the talk about them secretly trying to buy out the main energy companies in the state without open bids from others and no negociations of cost. The are fighting for deregulations making polution harder to control. I worry about the damage that will be done to our parks and waters.
8677
Anonymous   you are the fool, corporations have control over every facet of your pathetic life why don't you get off this site a put on Dancing with the Stars
8848
Anonymous   +1
7022
Anonymous   +1
7053
Anonymous   +1
7093
Anonymous   +1000
7157
Anonymous   +1
7225
Anonymous   +1
7226
Anonymous   1+
7367
Anonymous   Ill run it with the other in my area, wont hurt spreading the word, and letting others know who the good guys really are. Unions can work like a hive to, get a couple intrested, most normally fall in with the crowd.
6945
Anonymous 2011-02-25 22:17:07
the Koch brothers are nothing compared with actblue and goldmansachs, both of whom give much mch more to democrats then republicans
Hell, even GE gives huge to dems. the kochs are small fries in comparison
6968
Anonymous   But you got to start small though in order to build momentum. Just saying.
6969
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:23:29
+1

It begins little by little.
7340
Anonymous   Still 40 million to help bankroll the tea party is nothing to scoff at
6972
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:24:32
Do them too then?

I think few if any have suggested that corporations are not slimy fucks out to make as much cash as possible to and do as little for it as they have to. Hell the democrats are not particularly better than the republicans, both sides have been bought and are being played against the citizens, but does that mean we should not fight against either or both sides?

7011
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:42:14
Yes, attack the organization of nurses and firemen. put them on the same level as billionaire industrialists.

WTF? This is like saying should we attack Hitler and while we are at it burn down Anne Frank's house?

What is this, i don't even...
7076
Anonymous 2011-02-26 03:26:07
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000085

So Anne franks house is owned by Goldman Sachs? Cant say that i'm overly surprised.
7110
Anonymous   lol + 1
8870
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:21:11
Actblue is just a portal for small donations you asshole.

So you are comparing two guys, or a evil wall street bank with a bunch of anons giving $20.

read something other than right wing rags or gtfo.
7052
Anonymous   +100
8166
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:55:28
there is no difference true dat ALL corp donations to parties is bad (even union contri sad 2 say)
see http://t.co/YTBKpJH
know this guy you should Pedawan or pedo whatever
@lessig Brookline, MA
law professor, reformer.
http://lessig.org/blog
7369
Anonymous   Why?
7717
Anonymous   They don't need to give money directly to the candidates to influence an election. Have you heard of the Citizens United ruling?
7402
Anonymous   How much influence do political advertisements really have? The candidate that spends the most money hardly comes close to always winning. That's also including the fact that money will follow opinion more often than opinion follows money.
7720
Anonymous   Koch bros small fries compared to actblue.com? GMAFB. I invoke Internet Rule # 14.
7649
Anonymous   You Really need to stop getting your statistics from Glenn!
8507
Anonymous 2011-02-28 01:52:37
Act Blue? Are you fucking kidding me?

Act Blue is a progressive fundraising website where people donate to campaigns and people they agree with. The majority of donations are around the $20 mark or less.

http://www.actblue.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActBlue
9267
Anonymous 2011-03-02 00:30:43
"Act Blue is a progressive fundraising website where people donate to campaigns and people they agree with. The majority of donations are around the $20 mark or less."

So because the Koch brothers donate to causes they themselves also believe in but have more money to do so from producing products that people actually want to buy they are exempt from the same privilege? Are we forgetting about Soros here?
11521
Anonymous 2011-02-25 22:39:02
Koch and their ilk supported Mubarak, Bin Ali and recently Gaddafi
Oppression is oppression, fight it where ever an when ever you can

http://i1.fastpic.ru/big/2011/0226/e4/64680d40582cfd4d8b3c2c577b93e1e4.gif
6975
Anonymous   Investigating the Koch Brothers goes back to their father who was a member of the John Birch Society & eventually leads to Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh & Fox News propaganda & the war on the working middle class. They use religious Christian dogma, abortion & fear of Muslims to keep people voting against their best interests. Its so obvious but really only a few are waking up! The truth needs to be told & revealed!
7394
Anonymous   John Birch Society is coincidentally headquartered in Appleton, Wisconsin... http://www.jbs.org/
7562
Anonymous   Hasn't the John Birch Society been against every war since vietnam?
7698
Anonymous   Weren't they against every war since they were founded?
8073
Anonymous   Bullshit, Koch family has been opposed to foreign adventurism and propping up dictators. Otherwise they wouldn't be donating to libertarian causes.
11526
Anonymous 2011-02-25 23:04:02
http://images.alternet.org/images/managed/ads_teapartyinc.jpg

And you can add Wisconsin gov Walker to that list
6980
Anonymous   THANK YOU! Excellent image!
7400
Anonymous 2011-02-25 23:21:28
-1 Not gonna run with this one. This Anon is stuck in a union in order to work a well-loved job, and the union can suck a fat stubby. Until you see it from the inside, trying to explain it is pointless. I hate politicians, but I fucking despise thick-necked, brainless union fucks even more.

Sally forth, Anon. My opinion means dick vs. the collective. Just know that not everyone is up to this particular fight.
6984
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:40:13
True, if your lucky they will break the unions in Wisconsin and you may get yours broken also.

Keep in mind though that its typically the union busters who are against minimum wages, and labor laws in general, not to mention the unconstitutional ban on child labor, which is deeply unfair to the kids cause its means they need to be unemployed until what 16 without the parents permission?

All that being said, compulsory unionization, isn't right either.
7028
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:39:52
"compulsary unionization" You want the job, you have to pay a bit ($15 a week at most). The End. No one wants to pay for anything, but organizations need funds to operate. That money goes to fighting for healthcare, running the pensions, setting up scholarships, running the union, hiring lawyers to go to the Labor Board hearings. Etc etc.

It is a tiny amount for the benefits. I'm not saying it is a dream world. No one WANTS to pay for anything, right? But it is no different than taxes - except in a union u actually get something.

$15 a week, you get free healthcare, pension, legal help, scholarships. In US, $200 a wk and you get an unwinnable war in Iraq.
7072
Anonymous   It's even worst in Europe, where oppressive compulsory unions force people to take SIX weeks paid vacation a year! Between the free healthcare, universities and living wages that these goons force on everyone, its amazing that the people don't revolt. It must be because they hate our 'freedoms'
7120
Anonymous   +1
7174
Anonymous   +1
7256
Anonymous   +1
7351
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:08:54
lol @ Amerifags and their 'freedom'

lolololololol
7421
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:56:00
Anyone remember that clip of Bush being confronted by a woman who seemed a little upset at having to work 4 jobs to maintain her and her kids at just above the poverty line?

His response was something like: "Just think how lucky you are to live in a country which gives you the freedom to work 4 jobs"

Guess freedom really isn't free.
7591
Anonymous   +1
8882
Anonymous 2011-02-26 06:36:20
I believe unions should have their collective bargaining rights, sure, but you're going to fail if you try to convince me that compulsory unionization is anything other than job-market extortion.

If the union needs money, maybe they should hold a fundraiser? A raffle? Sell t-shirts like the Wikileaks sellouts. There are a lot of ways to do it without forcing anyone who wants a job in a certain market, to join the union and fork over their hard earned money.
7203
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:09:36
Job-market extortion? What does that actually mean? Being forced to take a higher wage? Better working conditions and benefits? Sign me up for that kind of punishment.

It's something that I'd willingly 'fork over my hard earned money' for...
7423
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:39:08
That's the difference. "Willing." What about those of us who don't want to deal with the borderline mobsters of the Unions -or- the not-so-borderline mobsters in political office? What about those people to whom money is a means to an end and not an end in and of itself.

If people want to band together to work together, that's fine and should be supported, but forcing someone to be part of your gang just so you can get the job you're trained for without moving across country, is just another form of extortion.
7450
Anonymous   More or less pernicious than the extortion inherent in the 'free labour market'? - take this job on the terms I offer it, or don't and starve
7464
Anonymous 2011-02-26 13:45:28
Why not start by putting the gangsters in jail? Or, you have collective bargaining across industries, where wages are set for everyone, union and non-union?

Extortion is in effect when you have no power to set the price of your labor.
7494
tkwelge   But people set the price for their own labor every day. Anytime you don't take a job, you are sending the message that that job pays too little, is unsafe, or just unpleasant and that all goes into market calculations.

8605
Anonymous 2011-02-27 15:28:05
lol

that's the view from the middle class, huh?

no wonder ur also after the social safety-net - let's see how long the proles can keep turning down jobs when the food stamps run out
8720
tkwelge 2011-02-28 04:49:58
I'm well below middle class, and even I can recognize this widely known economic fact.

If you pay people to be unemployed, they'll hold out for jobs that don't exist at the moment. That is 1+2=3.
9475
Anonymous   it's the difference between a great society and no society
10103
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:10:40
Safer working conditions are a public good, and hard to deny to anyone. Unions get them for everyone, so they need dues from everyone because they can't limit better conditions to certain people.

Also, the public jobs are different from private sector jobs. In private sector jobs, each person can bargain with their manager for a higher wage. The governor sets the education budget for the state; it's impractical for every teacher to go bargain for their salary...which is what is happening now.
http://images.publicradio.org/content/2011/02/17/20110217_wisconsin-capitol-protest_33.jpg

tl;dnr: Unions are needed to provide a public good and are more efficient and effective than individual bargaining.
7513
Anonymous   If unions are responsible for safe working conditions, then OSHA must just be a superfluous racket. Let's get rid of one or the other.
7575
tkwelge   Except that texas teachers are non unionized and highly paid. If teachers really want more money, they can still go out and campaign for higher teacher salaries on their own. Why do they need a taxpayer supported lobby?
8601
Anonymous 2011-02-28 11:40:00
Who are you kidding? School districts would shut down if the hundreds on teachers on 1-yr contracts re-negotiated their salaries and benefits every year. They should thank their lucky stars unions are out there.

Taxoayers, by the way, would be paying for the massive human resources departments that would need to be created to handles these negotiations...
9965
Anonymous   1000+
7463
Anonymous   +100
8189
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:23:33
You hate the fat shit fucks the vote them out in the union elections to get rid of them instead of complaining like a dumb bitch.

"trying to explain it is pointless". Indeed.
7055
Anonymous 2011-02-26 13:03:17
Corruption, which is nearly as common in some unions as it is in U.S. government, is very difficult to just "vote out."

Unions are definitely critical to fairly balancing power between workers and the corporations that employ them, but many of those unions desperately need reform.
7461
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:28:14
Ever read The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair?

Unions = You not being in poverty
7060
Anonymous   Outstanding observation. Anyone who applauds a master who tosses them nothing but scraps from thier table is too stupid to realize that they are slaves.
7086
Anonymous 2011-02-26 07:47:42
In the past, unions had their place. Sure, they were the catalyst for labor law and labor reform. We're not in the past anymore. About 20% of union dues goes to union operating expenses. The rest go to PACs, which are largely leftwing. I guess freedom of expression doesn't apply to the right-leaning, eh? Fucking double standards.

Unions are not needed any more. They're an anachronism. Labor law isn't going to suddenly change when the International Association of Worthless Fucks goes tits up.
7242
Anonymous   -1 Unions support the party that best supports labor. Most of the time that's Democrats, although they're certainly not that much better in terms of taking Wall Street cash. Complaining that unions provide financial backing to support policies that benefit them while ignoring that every product you buy goes towards a corporate political war chest with their own agenda in mind (that doesn't benefit you) is ignoring why the ability to collectively organize is important in the first place.
7372
Anonymous   +1
7424
Anonymous   It's a long game, and you don't begin to understand it.
7428
Anonymous   Unions were never necessary. The unskilled laborers wage rose all through the 1800's. Nobody can force anybody to work 50 hours a week unless they want too. Most unionization occurred to keep out competition from blacks and foreigners that were willing to work for less. It wasn't about protecting their freedom so much as taking away the right of others to compete with them.
7727
Anonymous 2011-02-27 01:46:14
Wow... during the Dickensian, that wonderful era of smokestacks, typhoid and consumption, where unskilled workers lived in total squalor and near starvation, nobody was 'forced' to work 50 hours a week unless they wanted to? Most of them would have loved 50 hrs versus the 80 or more they were 'allowed' to work!

And I guess children were much more entrepreneurial back then, what with all the 12 year-olds working 18 hr days in windowless sweatshops, or as slaves on the plantation. They had lots of 'choice' and 'freedom.'
7818
tkwelge   Uh, dumbass, yes that period was distasteful COMPARED TO TODAY. However, that "awful" Dickensian period saw the greatest expansion in quality of life and the greatest drop in malthusian deaths since the dawn of man.
7986
Anonymous   Unions = You losing your job to someone with greater work experience who wants to make it cheaper to hire them to do work that a few unskilled workers (who need the jobs) could do just as efficiently.

11529
Magnanimous 2011-02-26 09:26:03
#opWisconsin is a two front blitz

Anons attacking Kochs
Magnas attacking the debt scandal

It's not only about unions.
7301
Anonymous 2011-02-25 23:43:37
This isn't what Anon is for.

Freedom of teh internets or GTFO.
6987
Anonymous   oh yeah i forgot, Scientology was taking over internets
6989
Anonymous   Scientology tried to suppress online documents that revealed how much of a scam their religion is. Anon's battle with them WAS about freedom of information and the net.
7018
Anonymous   +1
7177
Anonymous   +9
7550
Anonymous 2011-02-26 05:46:17
Batshit Tom Cruise video DMCA'd? Scilon threats against Wikileaks? Yeah, no internet connection there; we were all just bored.

OP: "Ai nevar been on these internets befoar. Herp derp derrrrrrp."
7178
Anonymous   Anonymous is for something?

7049
Anonymous   In it for the lulz last time I checked.
7058
Anonymous   So you would suggest that Anonymous is a tool crafted for creating lulz? or would you consider that most anons feel that lulz are one of the few reasons in such a world worthy of action? Therefore while we may identify it as being one of our prime motivators it may not be what we are "for".

7071
Anonymous   I agree, but I don't think any single anon can truly answer what anonymous is for though; because to do so implies an virtually unanimous decision by all anons for it to be true.
7107
Anonymous 2011-02-26 04:06:41
I'm not so sure I agree. If we assume that each anon is part of a flock or a swarm, there will always be leaders who will direct the larger bodies in flight. Basic rules will govern how things work locally, but leaders will be forced to the vanguard to coordinate the group as a whole. But these leaders are fluid, more about function than which individual carries out the role.

In the case of Anonymous, I think memes are what define direction. If the meme strikes a cord, anons will start to swarm around it adding to its momentum. But, these memes have to come from somewhere, and that's where the leaders come in, such as the individual - or small group - of leaders who created this press release.

The lead insofar as the swarm follows. anons decide with their feet, and nothing will ever be unanimous - it never is.
7135
Anonymous 2011-02-26 04:36:21
You had something there - when you spoke of a flock of birds, there isn't one specific leader. Scientists are still trying to figure out how large flocks of swallows navigate as a single unit. Much is the same with Anonymous.

You were right with memes - one person comes up with an idea, not necessarily a leader though. If fellow anons find it amusing, they join in and it gains momentum.

You can't control a mob like anon - we're all here just for lulz, whatever those may be.
7142
Anonymous 2011-02-26 07:47:05
Actually, there's an interesting article in the New Yorker that talks about the mob vs. the flock/swarm.

The article is about how large crowds interact and what causes them to turn ugly and kill people in what's called a 'crowd crush.'

These seem to happen when communications break down and one part of the crowd can't see what the other is doing. According to the author:

"Unlike ants and fish and birds, humans haven't evolved the capability to transmit information about the physical dynamics of the crowd across the entire swarm."

Based on this, I think that a swarm could be controlled collectively using similar means of control.

But, can they be created artificially? Would the means work or just be ignored, especially considering this herd of cats?

Or, is it something that will happen organically when the swarm reaches some undefined critical mass?

Any thoughts?

you can read the article here: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/07/110207fa_fact_seabrook



7241
Anonymous 2011-02-26 13:03:47
I'm inclined to see recent events as indicating that we have now developed capacities similar to ants, birds etc by externalising our 'nervous system' into the electronic ether.

Seems we have reached a critical mass of interconnectedness, and the old information-routing systems, relying on centralised, authoritative dissemination of the social facts deemed most relevant to isolated national clusters is falling away in favour of cybernetic connection between individual nodes.
7462
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:14:32
Yeah, but ants and bees have queens, while birds flock and fish school as a form of protection.

What form of consensus will define and drive anonymous beyond the slogan and the lolz?



7520
Anonymous 2011-02-27 01:31:08
ants, bees, and birds do have collective intelligence. people do not.

http://www.cracked.com/article/18361_6-creepy-animal-behaviors-that-science-cant-explain_p2
7810
Anonymous 2011-02-27 02:15:35
The question is can anonymous evolve some sort of collective intelligence as well?

Relinquishing our individuality is one of the most powerful anonymous memes, after all. Look at this discussion with it's many opinions but only one author.

Ideas must defend themselves without the strength of an individual's reputation backing them up. Actions are carried out without thought of individual glory or fame - in complete opposition to the look-at-me celebrity culture all around us.

What's missing is a means of controlling the collective without undermining its core beliefs.

Can a collective of individuals give themselves up freely to large-scale coordinated behavior without losing individual and collective freedom.

I think this question is central to the ongoing debates about anonymous. How can decisions be made without anyone leading the process?


7827
Anonymous 2011-03-02 11:25:05
You can have an active guiding 'will' as it were. A leadership or collective intelligence, but without a democratic process it will never be truely collective.

Though that assumes there are no mindless followers.

A good idea may be to come up with a guiding creed or compact or set of ideals that can stand as the 'goal' or 'direction' .

But then that can factionalize into agree'rs and disagree'rs

I suppose it comes down to where the threshold between individuals and the collective is. How much of the individual is reasonalble to subuorn to the collective?

But a creed at least states the aim / purpose / ideals / direction of the whole, while following a meme, or a movement or a project, or a policy, or a mob, or a fad, is up to the individual to judge against that creed.

say start with something like :
the modern poetic version of the ancient Ephebic Oath which is now known as the Athenian Oath.

We will never bring disgrace on this our City by an act of dishonesty or cowardice.
We will fight for the ideals and Sacred Things of the City both alone and with many.
We will revere and obey the City's laws, and will do our best
to incite a like reverence and respect in those above us
who are prone to annul them or set them at naught.
We will strive increasingly to quicken the public's sense of civic duty.
Thus in all these ways we will transmit this City, not only not less,
but greater and more beautiful than it was transmitted to us.


and maybe toss in some of this:

First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing.
Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I said nothing.
Then they came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist, so I said nothing.
And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I said nothing.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller


--

Modify for the 21st century 'global village' and use it as the general guide.

--

Otherwise what we\re doing is nothing more than selfishly protecting our turf.

12093
Anonymous 2011-02-26 05:29:26
Nicely said.
Leadership can exist but does not give any right, and it is not linked to any individual or group. As you said, it is "fluid"
7171
Anonymous   +1 int
7382
Anonymous 2011-02-26 16:01:42
leadership is a functional descriptor rather than a personal characteristic

verb v noun

process v state

whitehead v aristotle
7595
Anonymous 2011-02-26 19:53:04
"A distributed, decentralized network is more a process than a thing. In the logic of the Net there is a shift from nouns to verbs."

Kevin Kelly -1994
7688
Anonymous   +1
7180
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:41:36
"Anonymous is for something?"
+11111
7355
Anonymous   Gonna be lots of them internets freedoms when you're working on the plantation. I'm sure the masta is gonna let you keep the ipad...
7128
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:14:56
One could argue that control of public utilities is control of the internet by association.

Derp, hard to connect to the tubes if the power don't work.
7563
Anonymous   that's some killswitch
7597
Anonymous   These corporations are the same corporations that threaten net neutrality.
7718
Anonymous   citation?
9044
tkwelge   There isn't really anything wrong with being against net neutrality. I think that net neutrality is more of a red herring than anything else. I'd rather see telecoms share some of their network for a profit than put into place a neutral internet.
9469
Anonymous 2011-02-26 00:16:45
For all I know this article is as old as dirt to you guys, but:

Article about them meeting with the Chamber of Commerce:

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/20/beck-koch-chamber-meeting/

Koch sounds corrupt as fuck.
6992
Anonymous   +1 Koch exemplifies the kind of business interests that steer the CoC and want nothing more than to see Anon wiped out and behind bars.
7376
tkwelge   Why does Reason support anonymous, wikileaks, and assange then?
7991
Anonymous 2011-02-26 00:24:12
Rich kids paid 23 million for this Governor now they want pay back. The tasty delicious prize, privatizing public education. The kiddies think the market is worth 1 trillion sheckles a year yum. You think public education is crappy and over priced now. Wait for the shiny new Newscorp version 1.0.

http://www.shellypalmer.com/2010/11/news-corp-gets-into-education/
6994
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:35:41
"When it comes to K through 12 education, we see a $500 billion sector in the U.S. alone...," News Corp CEO Rupert Murdoch said in a statement."

I am not OK with this
7024
Anonymous   You're ok with unions having the monopoly on the 500B sector?
7027
Anonymous   You're ok with a generation of FoxTards running the country while you're old and infirm?
7033
Anonymous   +9001
7037
Anonymous   Ya man those babyboomers sure have us in a great position for the future.
7046
Anonymous   That's because they're Foxtards. We don't have to do the same to the next generation.
7477
Anonymous   Can anyone here explain WTF a "foxtard" is and why you guys think it's okay for unions to have a monopoly on the 500B sector?
11531
Anonymous   +1
7215
Anonymous   Don't fuck around with my Dixie Cups. My childhood will hate you.
6997
Anonymous   What twaddle. New anon is a fucking moralfag.
7000
Anonymous   samefag with british accent
7059
Anonymous   bullshit, then. Better, or more baw?
7066
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:09:13
+ muchos

if fuckin up the Koch brothers and other corporate assholes is moralfag, then so be it.

Wiscounsin is a clear case of corporate power vs people's power. Screw corporate power.
7002
Anonymous   You're an idiot. The bill has nothing to do with corporations.
7017
Anonymous   You're a corporation. This thread has nothing to do with idiots.
7029
Anonymous   You're a thread. This corporation has idiots to do with nothing.
7578
Bill   disregard
7598
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:52:10
The bill has alot to do with Corporations Idiot.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/21/947947/-The-Koch-Brothers-End-Game-in-Wisconsin

"SECTION 44. 16.896 of the statutes is created to read:
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling,
and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the

department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may

contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without

solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best

interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or

certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to

purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is

considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification

of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b)."

7034
Anonymous   Selling of poorly run state assets isn't a big deal nor is it the crux of the issue.
7047
Anonymous 2011-02-26 03:30:44
How do you know that they are poorly run? From my reading of the situation, many of the assets in question are powerplants that provide heat and/or electricity for large state facilities like hospitals, universities, etc.

What's the point of selling off such assets other than a giveaway to business that can then sell the power/heating back to the institution at a profit to themselves, but at the cost of the institutions budget.

This is nothing but a backdoor way to increase the deficit, that can then be used as a reason for more cutbacks.

The crux of the issue is that a group of extremists is trying to set thinks back to the good old days when Pinkerton goons could run around cracking heads whenever the serfs got uppity.

If they succeed, you're last worry is gonna be internet 'freedoms.' I don't think there's gonna be wireless on the plantation field.
7113
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:55:57
Selling state assets for NO BIDS is a pretty big issue to me. Poorly run or not. Letting everyone bid on it to get the state as much $$ as it can is more of a free market thing to do.

This = no bids, no oversight, no approval required.
7411
tkwelge   How can there be no oversight when the dept sets the price? Fuckface.......
7995
Anonymous   read the provision, shithead - it states that any decision made to sell will be deemed to have met the requirements set elsewhere, whether or not it actually comes close to doing so - this means, no ability to challenge the decision because the power to make it is entirely discretionary, and thereby protected from administrative challenge - which means no oversight
8232
tkwelge 2011-02-27 10:56:38
But the dept still is the one who names the price and releases the property.

If you don't like what the department decides, you can take it to the polls. I agree that it is not ideal, and a bidding process might make more sense, but to say that their is "no" oversight is a bit of a stretch.
8327
Anonymous 2011-02-27 11:13:15
depends if you understand what 'oversight' means in that context - y'know, public accountability - holding those exercising public power (supposedly in the public interest) to the law, rather than shielding their actions behind an unconfined statutory discretion with no viable means of legal challenge through the ordinary procedures of judicial review

democracy is about more than voting
8354
tkwelge 2011-02-27 13:44:08
Except you can simply hold the politicians feet to the fire, and just not vote for them.

Everything is happening in the open.

8592
Anonymous 2011-02-27 15:31:52
err... read again, no it isn't

don't believe me? go study administrative law
8727
tkwelge 2011-02-28 04:55:54
WHen the department makes a sale to a company, you're telling me there will be no public record and anyone who asks questions will be shipped off to concentration camps? I'm pretty sure that people will find out the truth of the sale if they take the time to look.

Besides, from what I understand, they government is simply trying to make it easier to unload old and rusty state assets that are just costing them money now.
9481
Anonymous 2011-02-28 14:43:39
you've heard of separation of powers, right?

...it's the system of internal checks on government to prevent the wielding of power without accountability...

'the department' is part of the executive, and the power to decide on asset-sale is granted to the individual decision-maker/office holder in the bill by the power of the legislature (or will be, if passed as is)

the problem is that the grant of decision making power is massively discretionary, and includes, on its face, the means to circumvent other checks and balances put in place in the bill (or elsewhere)

even if we were to accept that this provision of power in such broad terms was truly the intent of the legislature (as opposed to the lobbyists who authored the bill) it is clearly an attempt to limit the ability of the judiciary to review the merits of the decision

what this means is that if any interested party with standing to challenge the particular decision to sell on whatever terms were ultimately decided, the court would (ostensibly) have no recourse on the terms of the legislation to declare the decision an invalid exercise of power
10123
Anonymous   it's also worth noting that one of the elements of the privatisation goldrush most open to abuse is the ability to shield administrative decisions behind from FOIA requests by relying on classification of relevant background materials and deliberations as commercial-in-confidence
14952
Anonymous 2011-02-27 09:16:31
The Green bay packers are the perfect example here. When other teams were bought out by the rich single owners, and moved to larger cities.. The people of Green Bay bought the team them selves. If the town didn't have the option to buy the team we could have the Montana Butte Packers...

No bids.. Not cool!
8151
Anonymous   this copy pasta still taste FRESH
7384
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:34:42
bill has everything to do with cutting pay for teachers, firfighters, nurses to make the state "more attractive" for corporations.

The slogan is "Wisconsin is Open for Business." Should be written on a pic of goatse.

Fuck these assholes. Where is the freedom if everyone except these fat fucks are broke?
7068
Anonymous   Yes, a 5% decrease in the pay of 170,000 workers in Wisconsin is going to make everyone broke.
7081
Anonymous   The Governor wants to take away the union's collective bargaining rights. Do that, and the union is essentially toast. I say, Fuck you, to that! Union Power!
7090
Anonymous   Why did that right winger FDR oppose public unions?
7106
Anonymous   Why did that left winger Regan say being able to be in a union and collectively bargain is a basic human right?
7119
Anonymous 2011-02-26 06:11:59
+1
http://bit.ly/hcSOWT
7196
tkwelge   Once again, conflating the private sector unions and public sector unions..... sigh
7998
Anonymous 2011-02-27 10:10:06
the only distinction drawn in the numerous international instruments which guarantee the right to form unions is with respect to police and military

sigh
8243
tkwelge   I don't really care about "international instruments." If you are a public sector union, you have a captive customer base.
8330
Anonymous   yeah - the US is famously self-serving when it comes to international law - fine to beat your enemies with, but it doesn't really apply to us, right?
8368
tkwelge   I don't represent "the US." Why can't you people actually discuss the issue at hand for five fucking minutes? Why is your primary debate tactic to attack the source of ideas rather than the ideas themselves. I don't care if I am wrong! Argue with me! Don't sit there on your big fat fucking ego like you are so great when you refuse to actually debate the issue at hand.
8581
Anonymous 2011-02-27 15:50:08
heh - I'm not particularly interested in the particularities of this issue

I'm more interested in ensuring the context is glimpsed, if not grasped, amidst the shitfighting between pro and anti union opinioneers

the relevant consideration on this point is that despite your objection to public service unions on principle, any attempt to disband, disrupt or otherwise target them is a direct attack on the fundamental human rights of union members (irrespective of whether they're private or public sector)

the US thing was to emphasise how far from relevant such considerations seem from within the empire, and consequently, just how far down the road of anti-democratic tyranny 'you' have already travelled
8749
tkwelge 2011-02-28 04:58:18
The right to extort taxpayers is a fundamental right? THe rules of free association go out the window when the government is involved, because they are operating with other people's money.

Public sector unions are nothing but a taxpayer funded lobby that can lobby for more money with which to lobby for more money.

That goes outside the bounds of the free association principle.
9485
Anonymous 2011-02-28 14:51:13
I can see why you'd want to go back and argue over fundamental principles, but the work has been done long ago by people smarter than yourself, with a better understanding of what is really at stake.

Now if you want to lobby the US to withdraw from the UN, the CCPR, CESCR and the ILO in order to clear the way for you to make the argument on your turns, then have at it, I guess.
10131
Anonymous   A lot of these public sector employees took cuts over the past few years to help with the budget.
10639
Anonymous 2011-02-26 03:37:31
right, but billionaires get tax cuts.

Americans may have short memories, but not that short. If U want to cut the pay of firemen, maybe wait more than a month after giving millionaires massive tax breaks.
7118
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:11:46
Uh... this press release is a non-sequitur. The bill doesn't address whatsoever Unions at private corporations, hence it makes no sense.

The reason Unions must be eliminated in the public sector is because consumers don't' have the right to choose another provider. The Govt has a monopoly.

Hence....there is no reason we can't have both a publicly funded private school system (vouchers) to COMPETE with public schools. Parents can choose which is best.
7003
Anonymous   yes because governments can be trusted to do the right thing by the people who work for them.

7007
Anonymous   Yeah... there's a lot of employee abuse in the Govt workplace. Ok man.
7009
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:28:35
Nice. Then we have two shitty underfunded school systems that spend twice as much on administration.

Privatization leads to more tyranny. In govt schools, you get your free speech. In private, they have whatever rules they want.

Private tyranny is way worse than a dopey bureaucracy.
7062
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:48:22
HA, "spend twice as much on administration."

Check out how many students per school district there are in your state, and compare it to New Jersey. This is one of the problems. New Jersey has like 8000 (I forget the exact number) students per district. Those 8000 students have to support all that overhead. This is the real reason education is so expensive. Bullshit overhead. Has nothing to do with the teachers.
7085
Anonymous   +1
7089
Anonymous 2011-02-27 06:52:50
You don't always get free speech in publicly-funded schools (see Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_v._Kuhlmeier ) but public institutions do have the benefit of additional means of redressing grievances.

I agree; private schools are far more easily subject to abuses of power than public ones.
7952
tkwelge   Except our school system isn't "underfunded." We spend more than most of the countries that are beating us. Moron.
8183
Anonymous 2011-02-27 17:38:00
That privatization thing is working really well in the prison system, lol
Just ask those kids in Pennsylvania. Again it only affects the poor who can't afford the lawyers. Rehabilitation of criminals my ass.

Privatization is just another way for the rich to get richer on the backs of the people. This capitalist shit without ANY compassion for your fellow man is what all these issues are about. Any fool that does not understand this is a greedy self serving bastard who would sell his own family for the right price. This is what I believe Anonymous is fighting against. It's what I am fighting against. Americans have be lied to for years and it is entrenched in our society that we believe we can have a piece of the pie. There is no pie just whores selling their souls.

8934
Anonymous   Should also note that sexual abuse is much more rampant in corporate run prisons. Including or especially the Juvies.
9305
Anonymous   This capitalist "shit" means that people must make an effort to convince people to buy your product or service instead of forcing it upon you (government).
12224
Anonymous   I'm a parent and what the fuck is this?
7165
Anonymous 2011-02-26 05:50:49
LOL

...except if you're actually a parent -9000
7186
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:14:19
Utilities are heavily regulated. They can only have certain profit percentages. Even if one corporation has a monopoly over utilities, they can't really do anything with it.

Don't we have better things to do anyway? I mean, people are abused and dying all over the world, and we're worried about teachers taking a 5% pay cut?
7004
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:21:40
I'm not from the US but I'm very concerned about this.

Lowering the quality of public education will adversely affect the US and hence the world.

Out of enlightened self-interest I'll stand with the protesters in Wisconsin. Not all anons have to agree but I'll happily participate in ops against the corporations that are consolidating US kleptocracy.

tl dr - destroy US kleptocracy and defend people's self-organization, ftw
7008
Anonymous   +1
7041
Anonymous   it's like watching the cold, moist tendrils of fascism slowly working their way into every piece of the current corporate government. It's not a big step, but a step nonetheless.
7327
tkwelge   How is paying teacher's less going to damage the quality of US education? The US spends more money per pupil than most countries, and yet has worse results than many of the countries that spend more money.
8607
Anonymous   The teachers said they would take all the cuts, they refuse to give up their collective bargaining rights, this is nothing to do with the pay cut.
7036
+1   It's about power, not pay
7733
Anonymous   +1
7767
Anonymous   Yeah, you should never try to nip a problem in the bud. We should wait until workers are being shot in the streets like in Libya.
7121
Anonymous 2011-02-26 03:50:31
Yeah, corporations amassing more power would never ever ever be able to eventually lobby to deregulate these industries - like Enron did in California with faked blackouts.

Don't you see they are on the march? They are moving forward, planning to deregulate, cutting their own taxes by BILLIONS while you say "what's wrong with average ppl getting a pay cut?"
7127
Anonymous   um duh again Enron the way around that is if it regulated profit in your state eg: CA... sell it to Nevada at 5% then mark it up 50% and sell it back to CA again for yer 5% (if anyone notices the capacity issue and why you go out of state??) burn one of your plants collect the insurance and say LOOK SHORTAGE!
7389
Anonymous   so you think eliminating a monopoly on K-12 education held by the Union would lower the quality of education? What other monopolies do you support?
7010
Anonymous   There is no monopoly on education, people are free to send their kids to private or home school. Hello Wisconsin! I stand with the people, not the corporations.
7223
tkwelge 2011-02-27 13:45:56
Yeah, but you still have to pay into the public school system.

And even if it isn't a monopoly, it is still a government subsidized behemoth that gives the poorer families no options.
8596
Anonymous   I'll only do this for my old teacher who is responsible for my fascination with technology. I probably wouldn't be typing this if he...that dick; maybe I would have been better off playing sports. If you let it happen, you deserve it.
7012
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:34:56
I think somebody got laid off , is now bitter and trying to get us to fight his battles for him.

Goatse bomb the companies fax machines and gtfo.
7023
Anonymous   +1
7063
Anonymous   +1
7188
Anonymous 2011-02-26 01:36:59
Boycotts do nothing. Especially if it's only Anon boycotting. All the non-Anons will be still buying it, resulting in this boycott being absolute poppycock.

TL;DR NO U
7025
Anonymous   I think you underestimate the rapid growth in the range of Anonymous' voice.
7485
Anonymous   +10982
7769
Anonymous   print off signs to tape on shelves in front of or near/on their products at the store saying something like "We Support Union Busting" or "Help us Defeat the People of Wisconsin!" It will get taken down eventually, but so what just put another up.
8724
Anonymous   +1
9129
Anonymous   +1
7056
Anonymous   +1 and total support for going after the Koch brothers and Koch industries.
7057
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:31:03
boycott is difficult to do idea but the target is right.

Needs more direct action.
7065
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:37:49
So what's the general consensus? Should we leave this alone, go after WisCo Gov't, attack Koch, or what. If anything we should send at least send a message to WisCo. Maybe do a fax bomb of goatse with a message of our support for the Wisconsin people?

It sucks because all of this is a result of GovCo bailing out corporations for their own faggotry. We get the short end of the stick while the businesses enjoy big profit. Anyone else agree?

We are Anonymous.
We are everywhere and nowhere.
We are no one and everyone.
7070
Anonymous   Go after Koch Industries and WisGov. The two are the same thing at this point, anyway. Get the right information, and they will topple.

7209
Anonymous   You sound like a shill.
7554
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:44:19
poem by Martin Niemoller:


When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.


When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.


When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.


When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.


When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.
7080
Anonymous   Godwins law.
7084
Anonymous   OBJECTION!
7126
Anonymous   Overruled.
7169
Anonymous   OBJECTION!
7172
Anonymous   STAY DOWN!
7476
Anonymous 2011-02-26 16:37:57
YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER! THIS WHOLE THING IS OUT OF ORDER!

Fuck, I've been waiting forever for an opening to use that....
7609
Anonymous   your welcome
7788
Anonymous   Don't taze me, bro!
9053
Anonymous 2011-02-26 05:51:32
Did you post this bullshit everywhere?

Drink a bullet.
7187
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:45:30
Boycotting wont achieve anything and is really lame solution so far the best action was the prank call on him.

Getting dirt showing corrupt ties between walker and kock [that goes beyond simple campaign millions] as well as in relations to their longer term agenda in Wisconsin would on the other hand be very interesting. Walker certainly isn't the brightest tool in the shed seeing he was already pranked with someone pretending to be koch.
7082
Anonymous 2011-02-26 02:56:26
Exactly. +1

We've already shown how Aaron Barr was planning on blackmailing reporters that supported WikiLeaks. A simple prank call showed Walker had discussed planting "troublemakers" within the protestors. What else have Walker and Koch done? I know most of us would enjoy the lulz of exposing GovCo corruption.

We are Anonymous.
We are everywhere and nowhere.
We are no one and everyone.
7092
Anonymous   Exactly. I bet that there is quite a lot of interesting information to be found on the servers and personal computers of Gov. Walker and both Koch brothers.
7094
Anonymous   Sadly I have no tech skills. All I can do is offer moral support and ideas. We chould just hack their systems then send the juciy bits to the various non-Faux news stations. The faster we can get the info to the public the better.
7101
Anonymous 2011-02-26 03:28:54
Sending them to Fox also would highlight their partisan nature especially if they were shown to be wrist deep in corruption and Fox wouldn't comment on the story

No tech skills? gtfo and troll then, you seemed to be able to post without formatting so thats a good start at least.
7112
Anonymous 2011-02-26 05:54:22
+1

he's already trollan.

fockin loudmouth moralnewfag.
7189
Anonymous   Some of us are here just for the lulz and some are here to make a difference in the world by exposing corruption and violations of human rights. Even if we do it for different reasons we still get the same results so why the hostility?
7253
Anonymous   +1
7358
Anonymous   +1
7360
Anonymous   Excellent!
7321
Anonymous   +1
7211
Anonymous   +9001
7122
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:30:28
I figure we owe that Dirt bag Koch for paying someone to hack East Anglia and gaming Wikkileaks with the "climate gate" shit right before a climate summit
any guesses who he hired HBG.... or...?
How dare he plagiarize or modus Op!
7393
Anonymous   +1
7413
Anonymous   Boycotts work if they go far enough. Re: civil rights movement in US South: main street shops and busses. Ghandi, King, etc.
7945
Anonymous   Do not want. No lulz to be had.
7139
Anonymous   +1
7146
Anonymous   +1
7191
Anonymous 2011-02-26 06:55:09
I'm in ur servers, showin everyone what a giant asshole u are?

No lulz?
7212
Anonymous 2011-02-26 04:57:47
mfw when real corporate corruption is brought to light and it involves politicians

http://i51.tinypic.com/x6l7vk.jpg

Many luls to be had if the right information is dug up.
7149
Anonymous   Agree or disagree with the op, you have to admit it's nice to have an organic operation for once in place of the trollish "Anonymous lieks free speech but (x) group is going down cuz we dun liek wat dey sez" posts.
7151
Anonymous   +1
7156
Anonymous   +1
7396
Anonymous   If you boycott Wisconsin made goods, by Wisconsin workers..... don't you think you are going to hurt Wisconsin here. Rethink the boycott. ....just saying.
7163
Anonymous   The Koch brothers own Georgia Pacific, and most of thier goods are produced outside of Wisconsin. So the boycott would not necessarily impact Wisconsin.
7238
Anonymous   It would impact 5,000+ jobs and lives in Wisconsin, and 30,000 jobs across the U.S. How would that end on a good tone toward some objective such as this, and the stand here to support jobs? Seems sort of contradicting to me, and underlying some other objective.
7467
Anonymous   If Anonymous out of anyone can be convinced to stand down because the Kochs and their ilk are standing behind citizen shields, they're invincible and it's time to grab our ankles.
7488
Anonymous   'so put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye'
7500
Anonymous   +1
7168
Anonymous   +1
7170
Anonymous   Well over half of Anons are Americans. In the 3rd world countries that are revolting, only rich people have access to computers anyway. Preserving the rights of educators in Wisconsin should be the priority! Make change where change is possible, the protests must escalate!
7173
Anonymous   defining the magreb countries as 3rd world shows ur ignorance americunt, fyi tunisia 70% of the people have internet access, less in egypt and more less in libya but sayin rich countries are third world just because they are corrupted make america 3rd world too. everybody should decide on his own where his/her priority lies, but im with u in a sense that this is important.
7247
Trout   You're quite obviously an American or Brit posing as a Tunisian.
7312
Anonymous   You're quite obviously a Namefag or egomaniac posing as a Anon.
7510
Trout   My days of posing as something so low are over. Anonymous disgusts me, and I would rather be a namefag than a shit eating submissive Anon like yourself.
7592
Anonymous   gtfo then? you don't like us. we don't care about your nonfactor opinions. You are fucking stupid.
7629
Anonymous   I don't like who's at the helm. You've got an invisible hand manipulating your childish fantasies and insecurities, taking Anonymous around for a joyride. Should be obvious to any.
7630
Anonymous 2011-02-26 18:07:38
Your insistence on maintaining an I-Thou relationship with Anonymous is why you are so flagrantly incapable of comprehending what's really going on.

I had some hopes for you, but I think at this point, we can say 'defectiveness: confirmed'.
7658
Anonymous   I should start using "we" like the rest of you and bury myself in the delusion that there is such thing as a hyperconsciousness and it's going to save the world. Right?
7923
Anonymous   um most of the Union busting Republican buying dirtbags we're talking about are Energy corps, can hurt them BIG time by helping all those new Arab Democracies nationalizing oil fields....
7401
Anonymous   To think that all of this goes down before us, and I am being kept blissfully ignorant the whole time. And it goes all the way down to fucking Dixie cups. I always wonder why everyone keeps being the stupid americunts they are...But after reading all that I have, Anonymous wants no more of that huh?
7183
Anonymous 2011-02-26 06:00:32
It is easy to talk to a human being at:
a. your local school
b. a corporation

Who helps my community:
a. my local school
b. the investment firms that fucked up the state pension funds, the main cause of this bullshit
7194
Anonymous   +100
7206
tkwelge   I'm much more likely to have a pleasant experience dealing with a corporation. I've dealt with the public school system for years, and I hate the fucking system.
8610
Anonymous   I am 12 and wtf is this?!?!?!?!
7200
Anonymous 2011-02-26 06:48:06
Just a note to the Op:

While you will find a large number of anons capable of caring about something, for the most part they are burnouts. Their lives are so sad and damaged that they've lost the ability to think about anyone else. The assumption that Anonymous is involved in the revolutions in order to help people is false. They are there because it's exciting. It's interesting news.

Need proof? Where are the hackers that took on HBGary and the Westboro trolls? Why haven't they done something to take out Iranian gov sites? (LOIC doesn't count.) Why haven't they hacked the bank that holds Gaddafi's riches? Sliced into some military network to disrupt the mercs? Because they don't really care and they never did.

So just keep that in mind when you bring up something that actually matters...the majority of Anonymous is incapable of giving a shit, despite all the flowery talk they like to put out in their press releases.

***Let the flames begin. First visit to the site and last.***
7207
Anonymous   Not that I disagree with you, but I feel that it should be mentioned that it would be a lot more difficult to hack into a swiss bank or a military network than it would to hack into one of the WBC's websites.
7347
Anonymous 2011-02-26 13:12:00
One would assume, but then again, one would assume that a company working with such 3-letter angencies as HBGary was, would be hard to get into too...and the general consensus of the Internet news sources is that it was a purely amateurish, unsophisticated hack.

But the worst of it all isn't even our pontification...it's the lack of any attempt, or even discussion. You go into most ops and talk about other angles of attack besides fax bombs and LOIC shit and some fag with an Oper tag will likely ban you. They don't actually want to step outside of their little boxes...
7471
Anonymous   Luckily shit like that doesn't happen here.
7502
Anonymous   What could be more lulz than knocking corporatist fucks with bigger egos than even Anonymous off their mountain; then looking down in amazement, because that wasn't even fucking possible!
7498
Anonymous   +3.1415
7208
Anon   + (- cosine)
7288
Anonymous 2011-02-26 07:04:19
this boycott has nothing to do with democracy but rather union hogs. Thank you for listing products you are boycotting so I can make sure we buy MORE of them and ask others to do the same.
Public unions have NOTHING to do with democracy and it is the democraptic senators that are not doing their job. I sure hope they are not being PAID for this! They need ot be FIRED now!
7219
Anonymous   u mad scott?
7228
Anonymous   He mad.
7230
Anonymous   he's not mad he just has no opinion of his own just restating Faux talking points, because he's missed the point, which is who's idea was it to put that in the bill...
7404
tkwelge   God damnit! Not everyone who disagrees with you is some "Faux News" moron, okay. Christ the level of discussion here is so fucking sophomoric.
8003
Anonymous   sophomoric is a big word for such a pretty little lady. now shut up and put my dick back in your mouth fag.
12449
Anonymous 2011-02-26 07:26:19
Right and I suppose you were alive when there were no labor laws or weekends or worker's rights or union hogs. Things were much better for the average Joe then, weren't they?
Corporate hogs have nothing to do with democracy either, they just buy and pay for the laws they want. Of the corporations by the corporations for the corporations, that's the road we are going down. Fight for your freedom from unions so you too can be a slave laborer. Because we all know, the poor people are the ones that have the power to ruin the country, not the powerful, wealthy, in bed with government corporations.
7233
Anonymous   Angel Soft is on sale. I suggest you sell your house and buy a lot of Koch toilet paper. You'll show us.
7266
Anonymous   keep watching fox news faggot.
7512
Anonymous   How can I help?
7234
Anonymous   Boycott and prob, join the IRC channel.
7249
Anonymous   I want to help too, but I don't buy any of those products anyway.
7474
Anonymous 2011-02-26 07:51:19
ONE OF KOCH'S BIGGEST VULNERABILITIES IS PRODUCT LIABILITY SUITS.

That is why the Koch brothers have funded tort reform in most, including my own, that allows them and GP to avoid liability/responsibility for people exposed to their products and contract cancer. All kinds--lung cancer, leukemia, blood cancers, mesothlioma, etc.

There are various ways of increasing their product liability risk, including exposing which of their products have carcinogens in them.

The reason most people don't know the cause of their cancers is because they aren't aware of exposure. The reason cancer victims aren't aware of exposure is, among others, because product manufacturers such as Koch/GP fail to disclose their products contain carcinogens.

Expose which products contain carcinogens and you expose their liability.
7244
Anonymous   this
7441
Anonymous   Good catch. GP building products. Do they have to have material data sheets with the govt.? If not anyone know someone with lab access that can determine the make up of various building products they sell?
7449
Anonymous   This is smart. This is the type of thinking that will lead to something.
7536
Anonymous 2011-02-26 17:35:42
I'm this guy: Anonymous - 2011-02-26 15:51:19 posting about Koch's product liability.

I actively litigate cases against them and their related companies. They are dirty and hide everything. I'll answer your questions and explain why more is needed.

The MSD sheets are kept by the manufacturer/mixer of the final product. There is an important reason why they are usually not helpful.

There is an exception to disclosing what a company must disclose on MSDSs found in 29 CFR 1910.1200. Those carcinogens that exist in a quantity below 0.1% in the final product need not be disclosed (according to the company's interpretation). We usually use the term ppm (parts per million), wherein 0.1 percent is 1000 ppm. I may use them interchangeably.

For this reason, the companies avoid disclosure of the carcinogens in consumer products these ways:
1. manipulating MS/GS analyses of the product to show data demonstrating less than .1 percent;
2. destroying MS/GS analyses that demonstrate higher content;
3. relying on other manufacturer data that is both intentionally unreliable and intended to induce plausible deniability;
4. relying on outdated methods of analyses meant not to detect the carciongen at the proper levels;
5. simply breaking the law.

Prop 65 in CA provides higher standards, requiring disclosure at lower levels, but this law is often avoided intentionally. There is a directive by OSHA that I can't locate presently stating workers have a right to know via MSDSs if a chemical present in less than 0.1 percent is still a risk because workers have a "right to know".

To be brief: getting the carcinogenic contents of all their products via MSDSs isn't enough because they won't have carcinogen contents. It's important to get the constituents' analysed or have internal memoranda discussing the products' carcinogen content being either know or manipulated. That's tough to get.
7641
Anonymous 2011-02-26 17:41:01
Let's start with this if you want to try digging:

GP- their joint compounds, wallboards had related building materials had asbestos and/or talc (same fiber, diferrent shape).

KOCH- they sell, transport via pipeline and buy benzene. Benzene is in paints, thinners, and all petroleum derived solvents to a greater or lesser degree.

If you can dig into this and make the carcinogenic constituents public, I guarantee it will increase their liability exposure.
7646
Anonymous 2011-02-26 08:06:34
Wisconsin was supposed to end 2011 with a $121 mill budget surplus.

Then walker gave $140 mill in tax cuts to big business.

Then said "oh no we have a $137 mill deficit, it's the Unions fault!"

This is FUCKED UP! That is the reason 100,000 people marched on Madison.
7250
tkwelge 2011-02-27 13:59:07
Um, fuckface, the debt hole is going to be a lot bigger than 137 million dollars. THe problem is the next dual year budget with a 3 billion dollar gap.

I disagree with walker's tax cuts, but he justified them as being part of a stimulus effort, just like the stimulus package that obama pushed for. Maybe he thinks it will provide more value than the money spent, but I doubt it. Still, he isn't really being hypocritical in that regard.
8616
Anonymous   oh look who is coming out of the woodwork. Pro-walkers namefag like yourself can GTFO.
8759
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:00:16
I'm not pro walker at all. I don't even know him, really. I don't even live in WI. I'm simply pointing out factual information.

I even pointed out that I disagree with the tax cuts.
9491
Anonymous 2011-02-28 15:01:36
the stimulatory effect of tax cuts can never exceed the gap in tax revenue created by the cuts in the first place - which is precisely why this particular brand of pernicious idiocy is never known in absence of the equally absurd assertion that 'deficits don't matter'

30 years of Voodoo Reaganomics, and the same old lies still shamelessly paraded by both sides of politics

+1 you for not owning it, but -1 for defending it
10145
Anonymous   This is a great idea. Go after the u.s chamber of commerce too. Between Koch and CoC you will discover how the Plutocrats run the u.s. And the world. Good luck.
7255
Anonymous   Sweet. Cavalry.
7258
Anonymous 2011-02-26 08:22:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBnSv3a6Nh4&feature=player_embedded#at=234


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3a2pYGr7-k&NR=1

7260
Anonymous   Ok first of all we do not live in a true democracy we have a Representative Republic. Secondly What are the Wisconcin democrats doing hiding in another state? Usurping our legal process and defying the willl of the Wisconsin people who spoke in the last election. The public unions are holding the tax payers hostage. I'm sick of you attitute that you guys are the only true patriots. Isn't that the same crap you were crying about republicans doing. Your all a bunch of hypocrits. Talk about facism you guys want to silence any decent from your views. An example is you obsession with Fox news. Silence the Tea Party Silence FOX News. Keep spreading your left wing lies.There is no level you won't stoop to.For a liberal the end always justifies the means.
7264
Anonymous   Welcome, Stranger! What planet are you from?
7265
Anonymous   Planet Glenn Beck, me thinks. Next he'll be warning us of the dangers of the Madison Caliphate and impending Sharia law if unions are allowed to exist!
7273
Anonymous   Look teabagger, don't get mad cause we know Rupert Murdoch and Koch Bros bankroll your chicken shit outfit.
7271
Anonymous   +1 lulz
7522
Anonymous   Thanks for $napping u$ back to reality Ru$h those fucking libtard$ are everywhere $tealing my freedoms keepin me outz da army. man those lib fuckers wont tache ma ged I was ready to kill me some islamofacsits too
7283
Anonymous   lol
7362
Anonymous   what a faggot. Anyone that defend fox news so much just can't be anon. Hi bandwagonfaggotry.
7518
Anonymous   Greeting sir! Might you have your ip address handy, or how 'bout an email address? I would like to send you some promotional material.
10791
Anonymous 2011-02-26 08:56:14
WI is the tip of the iceberg of a larger coordinated effort funded and directed by the Koch brothers. They have bought governors in multiple states to do the same thing. Shock doctrine budget bills that include breaking state unions. There is also the start of this with HR122 in Congress to prevent federal employees from doing any union business or communication at all at work. Google it. You will get the bill and pages of these Koch bros. think tanks praising the bill. Think Progress has a copy of one of the Koch Bros conventions. They have a clear goal. Kill public then private sector unions. Kill and privatize all aspects of government so they can run it and we have no recourse. Privatize the public schools and colleges, again so they can run them and reap profits while we have no recourse. They also want to kill all social safety nets so those with no job protections and crap wages will now have no medical care, or any other help. Combine lots of people not working, not making enough money and zero help like we are used to. Walker the WI gov. is seriously threatening to cut off medicaid payments so poor old people in nursing homes will go where? The homes will no longer get paid to care for poor old people too weak to fend for themselves. The WI is criminal.

WI is not an isolated incident. They are the first swipe in an all out war on the people. These billionaires seriously want to take over and be in charge. The results in the US would be devasating. I don't even want to think about how bad it would get for those outside the US and Europe.

Kochs also have a huge interest in oil and gas and are the driving force behind killing public transit projects and killing the national rail projects. They want everyone to remain dependent on oil and gas so as things get worse - prices higher, wages lower and less gas they will hold the cards. This will cause even more unrest around the world.

This is a big issue and if it doesn't get stopped now we won't be able to.

If you don't believe me research the Koch brothers philosophy and what they really consider "freedom" and their end game. It is pure even and the biggest threat to free people right now.
7277
Anonymous 2011-03-02 00:32:57
"If you don't believe me research the Koch brothers philosophy and what they really consider "freedom" and their end game. It is pure even and the biggest threat to free people right now."

Less foreign interventionism, less restrictions on private behaviors, less regulatory burden on business, and in exchange I don't have to pay an income tax...

Sounds desirable to me.
11525
Anonymous 2013-03-01 13:30:35
DITTO. Koch Bro. are in government to change the laws in order to reach a goal. DOMINATION. The only interest they have is to themselves. And they are doing a very good job. Unfortunately, the 99% is getting massively screwed in the process... and I like to vote and have the allusion it means something. These guys stack the deck in their favor every chance they get. There is a reason they invest in politics so much. On average, there is a $100 return for every $1 invested. You have to be big to do it, and there is no question how big they are. These guys are evil. I'd shoot them if it were legal. Better yet, take away their money!

Boycott Boycott Boycott Boycott Boycott
54242
Anonymous   Every time you go to the store, destroy one of their products. If enough people do that stores won't want to carry them.
7279
Anonymous   who let all the right wing cunts in?
7281
Anonymous   +1
7285
Anonymous   all the left wing dicks?
7455
Anonymous  
boycuntts suck
7284
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:12:05
I applaud the effort but this OpWisconsin does not come close to describing why Koch Industries needs to be taken down by Anonymous.

1- Koch Industries is the largest US polluter which is why they have formed climate denial think tanks and are using the Tea Party to overturn EPA regulations

2- Koch has corrupted our legal system by bribing SCJ Scalia and Thomas to make rulings that helped his agenda

3- Koch Industries in a major player in the war machine and is a defense contractor that worked with Halliburton for the war for oil

4- Koch and Haliburton have major holdings in Egypt and Libya and have funded Mubarek and Kadaffi

5- Koch funded the Tea Party express and most of the TP candidates like O'Donnel and Rand Paul to gain control of the government

6- Koch Industries has paid the GOP to protect his subsidies so he pays almost no taxes and is the 3rd richest company in the US

7- Koch is a white supremacist with ties to CofCC and is behind the war against illegal immigrants through the tea party

To summarize: The Koch bro's are corporate fascists using the tea party to take control of the Government by banning Unions, changing the constitution, removing their enemies, and suppressing freedom of speech.

Complicit is the Tea Party Express and Tea Party Patriots and all should be targets.
7287
Anonymous   Don't worry too much, it's not happening anyway, the tea party activists that hang out here have had their say, it's not funny enough, apparently. Anonymous was a nice fad while it lasted though.
7302
Anonymous   The Tea Party has had there say but I believe Anonymous will have the last word!
7314
Anonymous   Illegal what do you not get about that word?they are breaking the fucking law asshole.Get a clue you arrogant fuck. But the law dosent matter to you because you are an idiot.
7306
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:45:21
You mean those laws created by corporations to keep Mexicans that were here before white Europeans as second hand citizens to be used as slaves ?

Those laws ?

Your right those laws do not matter to me!
7313
Anonymous 2011-02-26 20:31:16
Talking about the law on Anon-news?

Irony is dead. Long live irony.
7697
tkwelge   Reason, which is funded by the Koch's is pro open borders. They argued against the new immigration bill in Arizona.
8619
Anonymous   Yes they enjoy paying people from a poor country less than what is fair to work in all their factories.
9143
Anonymous   Fairness is subjective. There isn't a standard definition of 'fairness'. They pay what the job is worth. To me, that's fair.
9925
Anonymous   + 1000
8957
Anonymous   Lol cunts nice. That's just like a liberal name calling like a little child. Big tough talk from a keyboard. How come when glenn Beck says something about someone like Van Jones you say he lies or he's nutz but a liberal post it and its undisputed fact. Again I call you all out as hypocrites. And one last thing. If someone is a Tea Bagger that means he tbags someone not get tbagged. Official Tparty member Teabagging liberals since 2008. LOL. You people are so stupid
7289
Anonymous   your rite bro lets stomp some niggars
7322
Anonymous   It seems too complicated for a Beck fan so i'll keep it simple. You and the tea party right winger can eat a giant nigger nutsack and choke on it.
7527
Anonymous   AnonNews is blocked on Wisconsin Capital servers...
7290
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:47:22
lol, that shows how much influence Koch has.

This all smells of corporate/political collusion. I couldn't care less of the specifics, but any event of collusion should raise red flags.
7453
Anonymous   proof or gtfo.
7482
Anonymous   Koch Ind. also owns Conoco, Chevron, Union 76, Unocal - boycott these too.
7292
Anonymous   Teabaggers are useful idiots for the Plutocrats today. But every Teabagger should ask himself this question: what happens to useful idiots when they are no longer useful?
7295
Anonymous   they go back to being useless idiots?
7486
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:22:44
Koch bros. dad earned much of his fortune in oil in the USSR with a relative that was a Nazi officer who was later tried for war crimes. Koch Bros. dad founded the John Birch Society. Tea Party is John Birch 2.0.

Koch Bros are behind the Tea Party, Heritage Foundation, Cato Inst. and a bunch of the other big political groups trying to deregulate everything and kill all laws that help keep freedom of the individual.

Koch Bros. dad was banned from doing business in the US in the late 20's-early 30's because he was so corrupt. That was why he went to the USSR for a while. Came back and founded John Birch etc.
7297
tkwelge 2011-02-27 14:05:00
WTF? The John Birch society has been against every war since they were founded. The tea party hasn't done anything wrong. The Koch's fund libertarian think tanks that advocate for individual freedom above all else.

Things aren't so black and white.
8626
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:23:15
More right wing moralfag American-centric monkey screeching and shit throwing.

Don't care - regional USA crap - just like the WBC and Teafags

Why not?

#1 - No lulz - just moralfaggorty
#2 - Not your personal army

Fix your own country - the rest of us have our own problems and interests. Just keep it on your side of the pond.
7299
Magnanimous   you weren't in chan - lulz are packed beyond possible density
7303
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:30:04
u missed the point, this could be the first step for selfliberation of americunts. potential lulz a lot. peoples army not personal.
sorry sir no internets for u
7304
Anonymous   But the problem is that America NEVER keeps it on its side of the pond. America can't be ignored. It must be fixed or the world is fucked. Who do you think is responsible global warming not being addressed? The united states. Why? Because it is controlled by Right Wing lunatics like the Koch Bros.
7305
Anonymous   ^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7491
Anonymous   Just remember that when you need our help!
7319
Anonymous   Moar like left wing moralfaggotry. Get your political spectrum right.
7338
Anonymous   Tons of potential for lulz here. Don't forget, Governor Walker in Wisconsin already fell for a 20 minute prank phone call from some semi-literate blogger.
7543
Anonymous   +infinity
7809
Anonymous   Changing the constitution? Please elaborate
7300
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:59:43
Koch has used the TP to try and change the 14th amendment and is behind the SB1070 unconstitutional AZ immigration law

The Koch plan is to take the US back to Federalist days before the constitution
7324
tkwelge   Except the koch funded think tanks are against the AZ immigration law. All of the Koch funded libertarian think tanks are for open borders.
8627
Anonymous   They make all the toilet paper, with what are we supposed to wipe our ass? I'll support the boycott all except for TP.
7307
Anonymous   LOL the Pinko commy frenchfags have this thing called a Bidet, big in Japan too for you Weeaboos
7417
Anonymous   Koch makes Northern, Zee, Angel Soft TP They DO NOT make Charmin & Scott. Buy Charmin or Scott instead.
7309
Anonymous 2011-02-26 09:52:15
meh. no comment.

wake me when it's over
7316
Anonymous   +1
7325
Anonymous Bosch   You all sound like socialist eurofag moralfag-whores. Americunts need love too, help us help ourselves!
7317
Anonymous   ehh not really feeling the whole "political action committee" thing also there is 0 lulz in boycotting shitty goods I never buy in the first place.
7320
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:09:11
You mean shitty goods that aren't even sold where some of us are? Not everyone lives in America ;)

Hard to boycott something they don't sell in the first place.
7331
Magnanimous   there's Euro brands
7484
Anonymous   cock brothers meets goatsie?
7328
Anonymous   WTF? Public sector unions are not something I (and Im sure many others) support. Let me guess, "anonnews.org" 's next project is going to be collecting money for Obama's reelection..
7329
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:16:54
So now that we've been sucked into blind moralfaggotry all over the world (against the better judgment of a lot of Anons), suddenly we have to jump on every moralfag cause?

No, we don't.

They've revealed enough collusion and illegal activity so the courts can deal with it.

7333
Anonymous   my sentiments exactly. this is a peoples fight and not a free speech issue.
7398
Anonymous   start freely speaking some (hacked or otherwise) truth, and the people's job is made a lot easier
7493
Anonymous   +1
7771
Anonymous   Uhm, AnonNews.org is just a press/news platform, it doesn't run any of these ops...
7341
Anonymous   Well some pea-brained irc admin or individual a stone-throw's away from the people that run this site must have come up with this stupid idea. Not that I endorse the meddling of billionaires (Koch, Murdoch, Soros, et al) in America's political system, but going after these guys should be done for the sake of exposing their puppet-stringing and corruption, and not an attempt to jerk off to something that Rachel Maddow spewed on about and indirectly supporting half (the Democrats) of the political machine that runs this country, the totality of which (both D's and R's) has led us to the current shitty system we live under. If you want to see the kind of damage public sector unions do to us, watch the Waiting for Superman documentary about the school system (done by the same guy that did An Inconvenient Truth, ironically).
7348
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:11:57
+9000

I'm for exposing corruption regardless of political party.
7385
Anonymous 2011-02-27 00:32:00
Just sayin, Waiting For Superman, and the whole school privatization/standardization movement is being spear headed by such organizations as the John Birch Society, and the Koch Bros. You would do well to learn about Sugata Mitra, or other projects that are showing much better empirical results towards bettering education. Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk60sYrU2RU
7789
Anonymous 2011-03-01 22:12:08
Everything mentioned in that speech (tech gear and autodidact approach) is better facilitated by a system that runs on a profit/loss basis and thus must cater to any willing customers for it to remain operational.

As for just how successful the DC Voucher program is:

http://www.heartland.org/full/27877/Study_DC_Opportunity_Scholarship_Program_Benefits_Participants.html

Lest I be accused of citing a biased source, I challenge you to find stats showing that graduation rates are NOT higher in voucher-based schools in the DC area.
11455
Anonymous   The issue at hand is not merely union-busting for political gains, but more a necessity to repudiate a corporatist astroturf agenda and disrupt hegemony rule of monied interests. This bill is bad news in so many ways; largely destructive to the state and commonwealth.
7557
Anonymous   this is so
7605
Anonymous   LOL lefties don't get it. Righties don't get it. NYPA means NYPA. Issues of the day mean nothing. Lulz are everything. Quit trying to co-opt Anonymous to push your pet agenda.
7343
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:34:48
+9001

Just a bunch of ineffective fucktards trying to get us to fight their battles for them because they can't do it themselves
7346
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:31:44
+ 9999 intarnets

Too many ppl trying to recruit Anon for their baaawwww du jour. We got the teabaggers to STFU. Maybe a slice of delicious cake for the herpaderp hippies is in order to tell them to STFU too.

Anonymous: Equal Opportunity LULZ.
7395
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:29:52
I use Charmin and Bounty anyway.

But Dixie... Oh, those bastards with their little cups... Those motherfucking bastards.
7344
Anonymous   it's not just the unions the Kochs want to get rid of...voices.kansascity.com/entries/missouri-senator-wants-repeal-child-labor-laws
7345
Anonymous   "Lefties don't get it. Righties don't get it. Issues of the day mean nothing. Lulz are everything. Quit trying to co-opt Anonymous to push your pet agenda." BEAUTIFUL.
7366
Anonymous   Fuck the Kochs, fuck public unions, fuck corporations, and fuck the state. Anonymous should have no interest in propping up either side of the unsustainable status quo.
7370
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:04:05
Your right on this par, the status quo, it's all unsustainable.

This shits got to go.

All of it.
7381
Anonymous   the bigger they are the harder they fall the harder I lol
7371
Anonymous   +1 tshirt plz
7737
Anonymous   bring on the zombie apocalypse
7373
Anonymous 2011-02-26 10:58:47
ATTN Anon,
Start reviewing these products on all available review sections of websites: Amazon, Dooyoo, Kelkoo, etc. Get non-anons involved in this issue.
7374
Anonymous   Now THIS is a good idea that can be employed with non hacker types. Would be worth putting out on mainstream channels.
7454
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:01:33
This is where "freedom" gets messy. When Georgia was a still under colonial rule in 1751, there was a debate in the British parliament over banning slavery in the colonies. The response was a movement that organized under the banner of "“Liberty and Property without restrictions”. Meaning that if the government could take away your right to own slaves it meant you weren't free.

Someday the "right" to forbid workers from organizing is going to look just as ludicrous, but for now it's a partisan pie fight.
7378
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:17:46
At the turn of the century, there was a popular argument that the eight hour workdays that unions were fighting for were unamerican because they would "remove the choices" of people willing to work more than eight hours a day.

Stuff like this has been thrown around throughout history, and it's a shame that it gets taken seriously.
7430
Anonymous   You've got it wrong, mate. At the turn of the century, people were herp derping over Y2K. Welcome to the present.
7501
tkwelge   Accept it is relatively true. The original labor unions were openly racist and anti minority, because they saw them as cheap labor willing to work more for less. The early unions didn't care if a black family starved to death, as long as the white man had his daily bread for his days work without any fear of competition.
8155
Anonymous 2011-02-27 10:18:29
guess which workforce management preferred?

having trouble? look which workforce they prefer now, and look at what's left of US manufacturing as a result


8250
tkwelge 2011-02-27 11:01:06
Which workforce management preferred isn't relevant. The fact of the matter is that many labor unions pushed for reforms that victimized smaller, minority owned and operated enterprises simply because they are too competitive.

US manufacturing is at a higher level than ever. Manufacturing JOBS have declined, but that is because of automation as well as trade.
8335
Anonymous 2011-02-27 11:26:36
management preferences is exactly the point - enlightened self interest sez the less $$$ I pay workers, the more I get to keep for myself

therein lies the class warfare, and the unions (irrespective of any particular failings) represent the means by which we the people can band together against the powerful to resist the raep
8375
tkwelge 2011-02-27 14:10:49
Yeah, fuck face, of course corporations want to pay workers as little as possible. Just as customers want to pay as little as possible for products. However, workers, customers, and management are constantly bargaining with each other all of the time. It's called market calculation.

Money is not an end in and of itself, it is simply a means to an end. More money for union workers doesn't mean anything if it simply must come from some other part of the economy.
8634
Anonymous 2011-02-27 16:14:43
yeah, if I were being pwned as bad as you, I'd be getting tetchy too

market calculation - that's one of those 'rational expectations/enlightened self interest' notions, right - the ones which rely on perfect information and undistorted markets?

and really, you're gonna bring up pareto efficiency as an argument for fucking over the little people?

way to complete the mussolini - fascism/corporatism - USA connection
8776
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:03:55
Sigh, you know that you lost the argument once you start pretending to argue the points that you think that the other side believes/argues.

You don't even have an argument.

I believe in the right of people to form private sector unions. I'm even okay with closed shops. I agree that there is no such thing as "rational expectations." That has never been my point. The problem is that public sector unions exist outside of the realm of market calculation. They exist in the realm of political/bureaucratic calculation.
9497
Anonymous 2011-02-28 15:07:42
an argument that you are unable or willing to see is no less an argument by reason of your deficiency

at the risk of resorting to unhelpful tropes, you are locked into an argument about the placement of deckchairs on the titanic

I am not
10153
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:22:37
There is no "right" to forbid unionising.

On the contrary, the right to form unions and collectively bargain is explicitly recognised and protected in international law.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 23: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, Article 22: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm

International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, Article 8: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cescr.htm

Also, various treaties under the International Labour Organisation.

For a worthwhile overview, see: http://training.itcilo.it/ils/foa/library/labour_review/1998_2/english/swepston_en.pdf
7528
Anonymous   Strong
7868
tkwelge   And I completely agree with freedom of association. I'm not even against closed shops. Public sector unions are different from private sector unions, period.
8343
Anonymous   not in international law, they aint
8381
tkwelge   "The law" is irrelevant. Unless you can come up with a philosophical argument that opposes my own and is built upon logical reasoning, so we can actually have a discussion, GTFO!
8637
Anonymous   heh - nice try, fucktard, but I'm afraid you lose this round (making it quite a run for you, champ)
8782
tkwelge   Except you don't even have an argument!?!??! WTF? You people are like kindergartners.
9499
Anonymous 2011-02-28 15:13:44
the argument is that there is no right to forbid unionising because the right to form unions is a part of the suite of rights recognised and protected by international law for longer than you've been alive

you can try to argue that this is irrelevant, and whine that your mighty philosophical arguments remain unanswered, but really, that's a >9000 level of fucktardedness, and you shouldn't be so surprised about being called on it
10162
HowAnonymousIsAnonymous   My father works for this company, If it were brought down, My family would have no source of income. But due to the Koch brothers shitting upon our nation, I here by refuse to use the products listed. However, I cannot stop my family.
7379
Anonymous 2011-02-26 11:39:01
On one hand, Anonymous is not your personal army.

On the other hand, given what I've read about the Koch brothers, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some very interesting information on their servers. Could be pretty lulzy if some of that gets out. Maybe even better than HBGary.
7399
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:01:27
Remember when Aaron Barr / HB Gary wrote all those social engineering proposals for BofA about infiltrating groups via 'social media' to influence them in directions they wouldn't have previously considered (or even wanted to be a part of) by using wildly conflicting viewpoints (one side being obviously flawed and looking like idiots).

Good times...

Nice job Anonymous, we are being manipulated.

Lulz
7414
Anonymous   Yep. looks like a fucking sockpuppet army in here.
7419
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:04:15
This is going to become more and more common.

Subcultures always get co-opted by the mainstream.
7558
Anonymous   And we all know mainstream co-opting = moar cancer
7590
CogAnon   But it's only for research!!11!1
8926
Anonymous   It would be great to leak the docs where whoever is doing it talks about targeting Anonymous for sockpuppetry. Meta-lulz.
12456
Anonymous   +111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
7434
Anonymous 2011-02-26 13:28:14
+9001

Seriously.
7483
Anonymous   The discussion thread on Reddit about this post has twice as many posts as this thread. Get over yourself.
7534
Anonymous   Anonymous is a tool and tools are always being manipulated by somebody.
7625
Anonymous 2011-02-27 05:38:28
+1

real people can hardly be as stupid *and* numerous as they appear to be, judging by general comments recently
7918
Anonymous   THIS
8116
Anonymous   Why would Anonymous support public sector union leeches??
7418
Anonymous   In our consumer society, the consumers are king, but they have yet to realize the true potential and responsibility of the power they hold.
7425
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:14:39
well it could be worse so far they haven't gotten those nasty DPIinspection laws in... oh wait who owns congress nao?
ya net neutrality, DPI, GPS required in every cell phone gee wonder why?
shiver no LuLz to be had in that space
7427
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:20:25
With all the uprising in Egypt (not done yet, ongoing), Libya, Bahrain, Yemen, Iraq can we leave this leftist moralfag for later when there's nothing else to play with?

We don't need to risk our attention being diverted from real issues.

Sure, Wisconsin is an issue but Americans are better equipped to fight than Egyptians, Libyans, Iraqis and the like.
7432
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:28:03
Yes, go fix symptoms instead of the root of the problem. They will only fall into anarchy again in ten years time. PS eurofags enjoy your many new islamist leaning neighbors, fags.

Year from now eurofags will be asking "What happen? don't these people know we tried to halp them with our cool interweb skills to keep their communications open and halp their /revolutions/?" when they are starting wars on your borders.

Here's to hoping amerifags tell you to fuckin help yourself
7440
Anonymous   +1
7585
Anonymous   look at all these eurofags mad they aren't getting attention
7436
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:26:29
Re: Sockpuppets

It's pretty funny that very little of this contention about this 'op' shows up on IRC. Probably because it's too hard to pretend to be 50 different people all at the same time.

As usual, the 'lulz' factor will be investigated, if there aren't enough (or any), the 'op' will be ignored, case closed.

The majority of the people posting here are just talkers and not actually capable of doing anything anyway making most of this discussion pointless.
7439
Anonymous   Its a little tinfoil but, some strange things have been happening lately to totally dismiss it.
7479
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:26:56
Sock puppets will be heard.
power to the posters..let's not forget who we're up against. A mugger will steal your wallet...these guys will steal your future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvNBdSerHVU
7531
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:34:30
Sharing in recognising and defining the problem doesn't feel pointless, it feels at least a bit empowering.

Plus, there's quite a nice set of useful resources scattered amongst the bitching.
7535
Anonymous   I beleeve is pronounced 'kochpuppets'
7615
Anonymous   Cockpuppets...though I don't want to know where you stick your hand.
7622
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:33:09
How about a WORLD WIDE GENERAL STRIKE?
Will the corporatists of the world understand that they must give ALL of the people who produce goods and/or services for them, a fair and just pay and benefits? Only if we ALL walk out, not before.
7443
Anonymous 2011-02-27 06:23:07
Bravo! Today, Wisconsin, tomorrow, THE WORLD!

Seriously love it.
7944
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:33:19
I enjoyed anonymous' takedown of the Bank of America whores.

Koch attack is sweet as well.

I anonymous a membership or volunteer organization? I'd be glad to sign up - you know where to find me.
7444
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:35:45
People in Africa protest against oppressive governments.
People in Wisconsin protest to grow oppressive governments and their overpaid cronies.

Anonymous is being highjacked dipshits.

fuckthisthreadimouttahere.jpg
7445
Anonymous   I don't believe anon can be hijacked, there's got to be a central leadership structure to do that. There is none so it can't be hijacked. Anon is the true definition of a democracy.
7452
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:59:07
It can be manipulated.

I'd say less than half of these posts are done by different people, even the ones with opposing viewpoints. Just smoke and mirrors to throw us off.

This is just some people attempting social engineering to get us to be their pit bull.
7458
Anonymous   Seems the mods would be able to detect something like that, no?
7525
Anonymous 2011-02-26 16:00:15
+1

One guy. I think all this shit is by one guy.

Fuck this newfaggotry.
7594
Anonymous   if u can't get lulz from cock ur dun it rong
7451
Anonymous   +1
7551
Anonymous 2011-02-26 12:55:07
Koch bros works w/ a bunch of other big corps to fund their network of front groups, buy politicians etc. Get into the computers of their top people and find the inner workings and it will blow away anything Wikileaks has going.

The boycott is not just anon. It is being promoted from all sorts of corners. So it can work. Just with FB, Kos and a few others demanding boycotts and the imfamous phone call, Koch INd pulled their worldofkoch website down and went into full damage control mode. Boycotts here do have the potential to bring down their consumer divisions because they are told in a widespread audience.

The info in Koch's various groups and their exec emails & documents will likely land a bunch of people in jail and could easily derail their entire plan forever.
7457
Anonymous 2011-02-26 13:53:47
+1
and who says this isnt lulzy!
7503
Anonymous 2011-02-26 13:08:35
WE ARE ALREADY THERE....

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=512457596&aid=336707
7465
Anonymous   good pics:)
7509
Anonymous   Expect More
7532
Anonymous   I need a facebook account to view. This is not how Anonymous works.
10543
Anonymous   Gief list of shiz to boycott plx
7478
Anonymous 2011-02-27 03:27:21
Besides the Governor, Koch Brother’s has other “vested interests" in the state.

They include Koch Pipeline Company, which operates a pipeline system that crosses Wisconsin. It also owns Flint Hill Resources, which distributes refined fuel through pipelines and terminals in Junction City, Waupun, Madison and Milwaukee. Koch Industries also owns the C. Reiss Coal Company, a power plant company located in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan.
7852
Anonymous   It is not merely the power plants that Koch is after... it may be that they would like to get into prison administration. Many of the power plants are at state/county lock-ups and Koch Industries has just opened a lobby office in downtown Madison called "Koch Public"
7515
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:45:06
That can only end well.

http://www.ucc.ie/law/blogs/ccjhr/2009/03/kids-for-cash-dangers-of-private.html
7544
Anonymous   Now all we need is a rightard to also post an op on here, and the lulz shall reach astronomical levels.
7517
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:14:54
the Kochs have donated to the ACLU

BOYCOTT THE ACLU
7521
Anonymous   Only because they hate big gubment and want to decrease it, or privatise it to be more exact, not because they actually oppose what the Patriot Act does or anything. They'd be just as fine with having private enterprise do the same for their own interests. Once they privatise more public entities(Which is blatantly what they're trying to do) that can enforce such draconian policy, its not even an issue.
7559
tkwelge   SO, even when they support your causes, they are evil?
8644
Anonymous   Welcome to Newfaggery, if you oppose my economic views you are evil no matter what else you do.
9382
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:21:02
Want to know more about Koch? Greenpeace did an investigative piece that details them. Does not include newer political scheming, the tea party or the union busting, public schools killing agendas they are pushing now.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29232967/Koch-Industries-Secretly-Funding-the-Climate-Denial-Machine
7526
Anonymous   And would you care to enlighten us as to who funds Greenpeace? Like they don't have biases of their own.
11543
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:24:44
I know quite a few anons here are young but thats no reason to be retarded. Going after the likes of the Kochs isn't about being a personal army, or a moralfag, maintaining a status quo(Not much of one when only 12% of the country is public union) or a hippy. Its simply in everyone's best interests to attack such people, unless you're part of the corporate welfare kings and queens sect of course.
These are guys behind things like HBC, wikileaks sabotage, and the oil dictator fags in the middle east.
You think what internet freedoms we have will even exist if these CoC fags have their way? You think even the food and water you drink will continue to be serviceable?

This is something even teafaggers should be jumping on as you are being manipulated by them against your own actual self interests(Survival/freedoms).
7529
Anonymous   exactly
7538
Anonymous   yeah, that's about it
7552
tkwelge   the koch's libertarian outfits are tremendously pro assange and wikileaks. Asscunt.....
8220
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:26:36
These pdfs: http://bit.ly/evS4XY are small but the protest signs
are yard sign size. Print them on a plotter
(kinkos for ex). The signs were made using Tex.
7530
Anonymous   One of the programs the Koch bros use is infiltrating public blogs with sock puppets. Thinking not enough laughs is one thing. But saying public workers and unions are bad is something completely different and something the Koch Brothers would like said. If you want to know who runs the world find out who runs the United States. And, oh yeah, anybody who thinks the Kochs Bros won't give the lulz, think again. Have you SEEN those guys?
7533
Anonymous   +1
7541
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:19:47
I don't think that anybody is saying that public workers and unions are "bad." The argument is about whether or not public sector unions are anything more than a lobby for the public school teacher's and a taxpayer funded one at that. The more money they lobby for, the more money they can use to lobby for more money. And nobody can refuse to purchase the product, no matter what.

Texas does not have public sector unions, but fairly high salaries and benefits for public school teachers. They may not be as good as the WI benefits, but they are still pretty sweet. The idea that getting rid of public sector unions will end the middle class is pure drivel.
7711
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:39:25
now active: #opwisconson

See: http://piratenpad.de/badgerbadgerbadger
7539
Anonymous 2011-02-26 14:47:45
moar caek plz?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
7547
Anonymous   To Eurofags, Kochs don't just have impact in US, they impact your country too. Why its facing many of the same problems now. It has even more Koch products there too.
7549
Anonymous   Koch is pronounced "coke". Scott Walker is a Koch Whore. There is potential for lulz here. Especially since Walker fell for prank phone call, proceeded to explain evil plans like a Bond villain for 20 minutes. istandwithwalker.com seems like a lulzy target.
7560
Anonymous 2011-02-27 13:47:30
https://majority.wufoo.com/forms/r7x3s5/ is a webform on that site. "All information you provide on this petition signing form will be public on the petition signatures page, except your email address."

+1 x 10^7 e-points to anyone who can get the word "penis" used in a news report about this form.
8598
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:23:11
OP, the info you provide on Wi power plants is a bit over-stated. Many of the plants are in need of renovations to boilers and facilities have reduced present value of capital equipment. Not that this adjudicates the inherent conflict of interest in no-bid contracts but I am just saying that the powerplants in themselves may not be a huge boon if sales proceed at the behest of the executive.
Moreover, this sets a terrible precedence for the state and opens the door for privatization of other state institutional assets. Additionally, since Walker wants to control many of the institutions that the power plants serve through political appointees (i.e. he would wish to appoint 11 of 21 UW board of regents), the stage is being set for awarding of sweet-heart deals that could last for decades, all with de minimis oversight
7567
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:26:57
Walker doesn't have a college degree because he "suddenly" left school due to academic misconduct. Media isn't picking up on this, but I've verified this is true with people at Marquette. Just FYI.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/scott-walker-dirty-illegal-campaigning

7571
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:29:22
Koch Bros can keep Wisconsin from developing alternative energy for years by buying up power plants and locking them into current dirty technology (which Koch sells).

That will ensure a market for their products in Wisconsin for years to come.
7574
Anonymous   HEY EVERYONE DOWN WITH ONE ARBITRARY TYPE OF ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE AND HOORAY FOR A DIFFERENT ARBITRARY TYPE OF ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE AMIRITE?
7579
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:35:24
It's class warfare.

The poor are broke, losing their homes, and dying of treatable illnesses if they had money or health insurance.

Now the Republican led governorships and states want to do away with medicaid and other programs that feed the needy, provide cheap or free medical treatment, or help the disabled. In addition to that they are firing teachers. Trying to dismantle unions. And wipe out the Democrat Party from getting more seats in state and federal power.

The Koch family is behind the majority of this as the MANY PAC and astroturf organizations such as Americans for Prosperity, TEA Party, etc are spending millions and upwards of billions of dollars on smear campaigns, bribes, and making sure to put pressure on seating members of the Republican Party to do all they can to destroy the Democrats and Obama's programs.

People are dying and the Republican Party doesn't give a damn.

They are now trying to defund the HealthCare Reform Bill and they killed the stimulus bill in its tracks to where 80% of it is still unused.

Right now we have Federal Justice shortage because the goddamn Republicans keep stalling on their confirmations.

We have over 100 empty seats in Federal Court Houses that NEED to be filled in order to have a functioning judicial system. The reason for the stall is because Obama is appointing Justices that aren't bigots or idiots that will follow Corporate Ogliarchs' wills.

Again, I repeat, people are dying because of the Koch Brothers and their heavy influence with the Republican Party.

Don't forget Citizens United in which the Supreme Court made it to where it is unconstitutional for Corproations to NOT be able to donate money to politicians for their elections.

Imagine the amount of power and influence the Koch Brothers will have in the 2012 election season.

If we don't change now and kick the Republicans out then they will systematically take us back to the Ogliarchy haven of the 1910's when there was NO Workers Rights at all.

Hell, there are members in Congress who actively seeking to repeal the Child Labor laws we have in this nation.

You say it has nothing to do with you?

Remember 2008. Lehman Brothers. The collapse of Wall Street overnight. How close the deep recession we are still in nearly became a depression on the levels of 1929.

The Koch Brothers and others had their hands in it because they spent twenty years trying to deregulate Wall Street and finally got the Glass Steagal law dismantled.

Even now, they are back to their reckless ways.

While the billionaires are running this country they are running it and the world into the ground.

Don't forget how the MPAA and RIAA lobbyists influenced many a country to re-write their copyright songs. The Koch Brothers has been having energy laws and regulations and so forth dismantled for years in other nations besides America.

The rich and powerful have all everything...and the rest of us are left with nothing, begging for work at cheaper pay and more hours because hell any job is better than no job, sure we'll cut our benefits as long as we still have work...unions? Oh they are in the past. We don't need unions as long as our masters are willing to keep us employed. Paid sick leave? Paid leave to take care of sick kids? Decent health insurance that we can afford? Mental health insurance? Dental health insurance? Who needs all of that...

This is America...bootstraps people!
If you can't make something of yourself in this country by yourself with no fancy socialist care then you are nothing but a lazy whiny liberal who shouldn't be here anyways...

At least, that's what the Republicans believe.

Like I said, this is class warfare.

Between the haves and the have-nots...in the meantime 40k Americans will die this year because they do not have health insurance.
7580
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:43:04
u forgot this:

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/Pence_Fact_021111_vF.pdf
7582
Anonymous 2011-02-27 18:15:30
the Democrats are just as bad. but I agree with every thing you've stated.

+1
8977
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:44:38
This trolling shit is still going on?

Fuckthisshit.
7583
Anonymous 2011-02-26 15:52:38
Hey don't forget the fuckers at Goldman Sachs and Citibank. Chase has it's hands in the distribution of the Food Stamp Card. The Dead Pheasants Policy was a dandy reminder of how many fingers they have in the pie. Not sure if the Dead Pheasants Policy was done away with though.

How much are you worth to your company dead?

http://deadpeasantinsurance.com/

A 26 year old female is worth 86,000 dead. The company gets the insurance from the life policy and the family doesn't get anything.
7587
Anonymous   Goldman Sachs & Citibank have it coming. They both had their fingers in the bailout money. Perhaps an OP for them later.
7593
Anonymous 2011-02-26 16:14:45

Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. ...Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. ... Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

-Frederick Douglass, 1849

7601
Anonymous 2011-02-26 16:44:04
Koch Bros. say they will not back down. I think it would be great to TP their company HQ with their own TP.

Anyone in Kansas wanna run with this?
7612
Anonymous   That's still money in their pocket....
7616
Anonymous   Well, use their competitors TP then.
7618
Anonymous   Steal their product instead. Preferably from WalMart or their own warehouses.
7736
Anonymous   lol, that would be hilarious to see.
7617
Anonymous   I'm so glad to hear this press release. I was going to write about this last night. Looks like we're on the same page. Thanks for standing with Wisconsin. There are so many good people here, and they deserve better. The protests feel really, really good in Madison. Let's roll.
7620
Anonymous   Rolling is good, just don't roll with: Vanity Fair, Angel Soft, Brawny. They aren't even worth wiping your ass with!
7624
Anonymous   Transparent sockpuppetry is transparent. Find your own army.
7632
Anonymous   +1
7821
Anonymous   lulz indeed
7936
Anonymous 2011-02-26 17:22:50
I'm this guy: Anonymous - 2011-02-26 15:51:19 posting about Koch's product liability.

I actively litigate cases against them and their related companies. They are dirty and hide everything. I'll answer your questions and explain why more is needed.

The MSD sheets are kept by the manufacturer/mixer of the final product. There is an important reason why they are usually not helpful.

There is an exception to disclosing what a company must disclose on MSDSs found in 29 CFR 1910.1200. Those carcinogens that exist in a quantity below 0.1% in the final product need not be disclosed (according to the company's interpretation). We usually use the term ppm (parts per million), wherein 0.1 percent is 1000 ppm. I may use them interchangeably.

For this reason, the companies avoid disclosure of the carcinogens in consumer products these ways:
1. manipulating MS/GS analyses of the product to show data demonstrating less than .1 percent;
2. destroying MS/GS analyses that demonstrate higher content;
3. relying on other manufacturer data that is both intentionally unreliable and intended to induce plausible deniability;
4. relying on outdated methods of analyses meant not to detect the carciongen at the proper levels;
5. simply breaking the law.

Prop 65 in CA provides higher standards, requiring disclosure at lower levels, but this law is often avoided intentionally. There is a directive by OSHA that I can't locate presently stating workers have a right to know via MSDSs if a chemical present in less than 0.1 percent is still a risk because workers have a "right to know".

To be brief: getting the carcinogenic contents of all their products via MSDSs isn't enough because they won't have carcinogen contents. It's important to get the constituents' analysed or have internal memoranda discussing the products' carcinogen content being either know or manipulated. That's tough to get.

7633
Anonymous   Someone in the Koch Bros organization will know, its a matter of finding them and getting them to spill the beans. Constant public pressure should help people start feeling guilty
7643
Kilgore Trout   Go run and tell your parents to boycott this absurd list of things. Explain to them it was because Anonymous told you so, and he's a hyperconsciousness.
7637
Anonymous   Let's all thank Kilgore. He took 2 min in between 2 cocks to type us a little bit of his famous faggotry.

7647
Kilgore Trout   I could take on any of you little script kiddies. Anonymous doesn't deserve my skills.
7650
Anonymous   Lulz for superfaggotry. Tampon kilgore?
7652
Anonymous 2011-02-26 18:16:37
Definitely defective.

Not to say you can't have a good and full life, just that you'll never even get that you don't get it.

Maybe it's better that way.
7660
Anonymous   think we need to buy him a keyboard with extra large letters and rounded off edges so he doesnt hurt himself "hacking"
7870
Anonymous   So namefag wrote an article
7701
Kilgore Troll 2011-02-27 06:59:27
Then why are you here?

O, "I am so much better than you that I have to tell you that."

idiot
7954
Anonymous   Soros next?
7655
Anonymous   +1
7664
Anonymous 2011-02-26 19:08:00
somebody may or may not want to read this

Forbes
The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions

http://tinyurl.com/4ob9l7o
7674
Anonymous 2011-02-26 20:58:45
Wait wait wait, is this saying what I actually think it is saying? The author makes the argument that the workers are the ones contributing to their pensions, because that money would have been salary otherwise. Yeah. That salary was paid by the taxpayers, though. Just as your health benefits are part of your overall compensation, your pension benefits are also a part of your overall compensation. Your employer could theoretically just give you the money and tell you to invest it, or do whatever with it, in any way that you please, but it is still money from your employer.

The author presupposes that the benefits belong to the workers, simply because they "earned" it. Whether or not that is true is besides the point. The fact of the matter is that in terms of total compensation, each teacher is costing considerably more than their private sector equivalent.

IN texas, where there is no teacher's union, teachers still make significantly more than their private sector equivalents. Getting rid of the public sector unions probably won't change their salaries much, but it will end a tax payer funded government lobby. I'm all in favor of that at least.

A lot of you are also making the mistake of conflating walker and the koch brothers. Yes, the Koch brothers contributed to walker's campaign, probably for a number of reasons, but their is a presupposition being made that the Koch's are somehow the real players behind the puppet that is walker. I see no logical reason to believe this so far.

I personally don't believe that the Koch's have that much to do with Walker, since they are libertarians rather than right wingers. I'm sure that they are all for ending public sector unions (which people keep conflating with unions in general), but they probably don't see eye to eye on walker with every issue.

Should the koch's be held responsible for the people that they support? I suppose, but you also have to realize that if people only donated to politician's that were exactly like them, nobody would ever be funded. You have to fund people who aren't perfect in order to get anything done. In this way, they are no different than any donor. Union's often support candidates who do awful things simply because they are pro union.

I'm all for private sector unions, but I just don't buy the idea that public sector unions do anything for anybody but themselves, and they force it upon the taxpayer, a customer that can't refuse to purchase the product.

The koch's also support a lot of good charities and think tanks that do actual thinking, even though you might not agree with their thoughts. Only a tiny part of their fortune goes towards direct political action.

I certainly don't agree with their environmental views, but as long as they lobby for less regulation and taxes for everyone, and not just themselves, you can't really say that they are gaming the system purely for their own benefit.

I just don't think that the Koch's should be a target of Anonymous. That's just my two cents. Plus, it would really bum me out if anonymous started trying to influence economic policies within relatively free and democratic societies. And no, corporate donations do not mean that we do not live in a free and democratic society. You still cast the vote.

If you really think that the system is that corrupt, then you should just bring the entire system down. If you go after one economic interest without going after all of them, you'll simply be propping up some other nefarious economic interest. One corporation's downfall will simply be another corporation's triumph.

Let's not forget, GE is the most owned stock on capitol hill. GE capital was given 18 billion dollars by the federal reserve.
7702
Anonymous   Oh yeah, and the Koch's also support the legalization of marijuana, legal gay marriage, and ending the Patriot Act. The amount that they donate to campaigns is trivial compared to what they have given to actual libertarian organizations.
7704
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:59:25
Heh, call me a statist, but their support of furthering social freedom comes at the price of increasing corporate power and weakening the people's voice overall.

We do not need them to speak for us. We are perfectly capable of speaking for ourselves.

(Also you may want to consider the possibility that while they may be furthering libertarian ideals now, they may stop short of government dismantlement. Probably leave the sections that line their pockets.)
7748
tkwelge 2011-02-27 08:03:46
Brrrrr. Ending statism is exactly what the corporations fear most, but thanks for playing!

I don't deny that the Koch's are self interested, and their gifts to libertarians might just be a ploy, but as long as they support libertarian interests and groups like Reason and Cato institute, I'm fine with that. The day that they change their tune or support, I'll call them out, but it hasn't happened yet.
8032
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:27:35
I gave you the link.
You read the article
think for yourself.
do what you want

free information/ free speech
7721
tkwelge   I just can't see how you can say that taxpayerscontribute "nothing" to pensions when they contribute EVERY penny.
8065
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:52:02
I would hope this is only the beginning. The Koch Bros. are a publicized and easier to hit target than a company such as GE. Their support of social issues is irrelevant, as their corporate existence serves to further the aims of oppression abroad.

Also, I disagree with your ideas concerning public unions. All labor should have the right to organize and collectively bargain if they so choose. Public workers are still people who still have needs and can still be exploited. IMO, it's immaterial that their wages originate from my pocket.

Ultimately, though, I think the organizational systems of most corporate entities, whether public or private, need drastic overhauls.
7744
tkwelge 2011-02-27 08:13:20
I'm sorry, but I simply don't agree. Teacher salaries and public sector salaries are political issues. There is no market calculation involved in determining their salaries, and i can't refuse to purchase the product.

Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference.
8050
Anonymous   Oh, now that you're under the microscope you're the little guys? With a small amount of scrutiny your agenda is obvious, and it is not for the good of the people, you're the first domino now motherfuckers.
7765
Anonymous   -1000 My mother has been a teacher for years and has gotten paid shit. WTF do people keep bringing up the teacher thing anyway? They are only one of MANY types of private sector jobs whose unions are being attacked. Not to mention the many hours of unpaid time they have to spend at home grading papers and doing other classroom preparation. If they didn't spend this time doing those things, people would be bitching even more about the poor quality of education. Try to get a prison security guard to do anything related to his/her job on unpaid time to protect your sorry ass from criminals.
7832
tkwelge   Both of my parents are teachers, and they make a fuck ton. And that is in a state with no private sector unions. I'll post my parents salaries if you post yours ;)
8045
Anonymous 2011-02-27 02:33:09
you should know better than to compare wisconsin and texas. texas has clearly decided that education is not their priority, while wisconsin has. wisconsin ranked #3 in sat scores in 2010, while texas ranked #47. An examination of ACT scores shows the same differential. If I were a teacher, i know which state i would rather work in.

you also conveniently leave out the fact that a great number of people "teaching" in private schools haven't gotten the certification required to teach in a public school, and would not be considered for employment there. would you pay an econ major the same to re-wire your house as you would a master electrician?

and this is perhaps your most idiotic statement: "I personally don't believe that the Koch's have that much to do with Walker". You can "personally believe" whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that the koch brothers pumped MILLIONS of dollars in to this state in the form of donations to their shadow groups like, club for growth, americans for prosperity, as well as the republican governors pac.

7835
tkwelge 2011-02-27 08:09:01
"you also conveniently leave out the fact that a great number of people "teaching" in private schools haven't gotten the certification required to teach in a public school, and would not be considered for employment there. would you pay an econ major the same to re-wire your house as you would a master electrician? "

This is a dumb argument. Certification requirements are simply credentialism. You pretend that certification is the only reason we don't hire car mechanics to do brain surgery.

Once again, yes, the Koch's have donated massive amounts of money to Walker, directly or indirectly. That doesn't mean that they are 100% aligned philosophically.
8043
tkwelge 2011-02-27 08:26:10
"texas has clearly decided that education is not their priority, while wisconsin has. wisconsin ranked #3 in sat scores in 2010, while texas ranked #47. An examination of ACT scores shows the same differential. If I were a teacher, i know which state i would rather work in."

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/main2009/2011451.asp

True, Texas is behind WI, but Texas is ahead of California, a state with similar demographics and population size. Oh yeah, and public sector unions.
8079
Anonymous   come on. california decided that they didn't care about anything other than property taxes. the reason calfornia's schools went from being the best in the nation to where they are now is because of prop 13. it really is as simple as that.
9239
Anonymous 2011-02-28 03:31:10
Look at Texas' dropout and teen pregnancy record as well. Texas is the worst in the nation. And that's before you add in that Texas if getting rid of hundreds of thousands of public school teachers and hundreds of public schools in urban and rurual areas.


Plus look at how Texas teaches new history about how the Founding Fathers are all Christians who loved corporations. That's what the new textbooks say.

They tried to erase Thomas Jefferson and Dr. King from the history books as well.
9372
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:09:42
As somebody who actually got their highschool education in texas, i'll tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Don't believe everything that you read/hear. If you believed the media, you'd have to believe that Texas was one giant church surrounded by dancing oil men shooting guns in the air. Oh yeah, and we all ride horses to work! Der!
9507
Anonymous 2011-02-28 13:19:42
"AUSTIN, Tex. — After three days of turbulent meetings, the Texas Board of Education on Friday approved a social studies curriculum that will put a conservative stamp on history and economics textbooks, stressing the superiority of American capitalism, questioning the Founding Fathers’ commitment to a purely secular government and presenting Republican political philosophies in a more positive light."

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

"Texas schools board rewrites US history with lessons promoting God and guns

US Christian conservatives drop references to slave trade and sideline Thomas Jefferson who backed church-state separation"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/16/texas-schools-rewrites-us-history
10034
Anonymous 2011-03-02 00:51:35
"If I were a teacher, i know which state i would rather work in."

That's assuming you can even get a job there in the first place. The high scores don't happen to come from mediocre teachers...
11545
Anonymous? 2011-02-27 03:03:08
Ha! This is rich.

"The koch's also support a lot of good charities and think tanks that do actual thinking".

Yes, and what's not to like about this particular line of thinking that is fostered by institutions that richly reward those opinions that reinforce a pre-stated ideology and bury others so deeply that they never see the light of day?

The Heritage Foundation has continually rated Hong Kong as being the #1 country on the planet in terms of economic freedom (though they lost some points in the mid 1980s when HK began funding lower public education so that poor people could go to school too). HK is their shining example of the Utopia we should emulate. A country where poorer workers (people with jobs) literally are forced to live in cages because they can't afford homes, a country that--according to the CIA--is the 15th highest in terms of income disparity.

I suppose we should be thankful that the model of freedom isn't Nambia or Chile or the 13 other free market paradises where weath isn't even more concentrated.

And who could possibly disagree with thinking like "Global Warming is a Hoax"?

Doing "Winnie the Pooh" impression now: think, think, think.

http://www.bigoo.ws/images/cartoon-gif/think-think-think-winnie-the-pooh-174960.htm

Think, think, think.
7843
tkwelge 2011-02-27 08:18:58
I'm in huge disagreement with the Koch's in terms of their environmental views, but as long as they believe in less regulation for everyone, and not just for themselves, it isn't like they are being hypocritical or anything. They aren't asking for special handouts.

Massive inequality isn't a problem in and of itself. POVERTY is a problem, but inequality can simply mean that you drive a benz while I drive a Geo. If you want to talk about helping the poor, I'm game, but don't sit there and talk as if egalitarianism and ending poverty were the exact same issue. There are certainly more equal nations in which the poor are WORSE off than they are in more unequal nations.

The libertarian website and magazine "Reason" actually has a science correspondent that doesn't believe that GW is a hoax at all. You could, I don't know, go by and check it out.

No, I guess sitting around and pretending that anybody with an opposing viewpoint is a puppet of teh corporashuns is much easier.
8058
tkwelge   Personally, I don't care if you rip the Koch's a new a hole, but it would be a travesty to go after Reason or Cato, when they are largely aligned with anonymous.
8119
Anonymous   If they have nothing to hide then theres nothing to fear. Try again troll.
8775
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:11:19
What? I think that you missed the point about what I am saying.

I like how you people are perfectly willing to go after somebody that has done more to support you than most of the mainstream outfits out there.... sigh.
9514
Anonymous 2011-03-02 18:44:59
Yes the Kochs are Anons!
Namefag=fucktard
12459
Anonymous   I'll be sure to get the word out on this
7680
Anonymous   Canons Ready Sir!
7687
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:00:25
Sir. WTF?
this is anonymous. We don't do sir.
you want to get an action going or join an action, more power to you.
Nobody here can stop you
But we don't do sir (don't ruin it by thinking that way)

This is not a top down organization.
tracken?


good luck. cover your tracks.
7703
Anonymous 2011-02-26 20:10:30
Kochs are a key piece of this. Another important piece is
the American Legislative Exchange Council. details -
http://tinyurl.com/4wa4ovr

Here's what the Council has planned for laws about telecom -
http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Telecommunications_and_Information_Technology&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=5&ContentID=9850

Keep in mind they right that legislation at the request of people like the Kochs, Verizon and others, then they find politicians to shop it to.
7694
Anonymous 2011-02-26 20:19:21
Makes it increasingly meaningless, when engaging in statutory construction, to talk about 'the will of the legislature'.

If you really want to know what the law is intended it to mean, you have to ask the lobbyists who wrote it, not the smiling criminals who voted for it in exchange for campaign contributions and general wheel-greasing.
7695
Anonymous   this
7722
Anonymous 2011-02-26 21:38:12
Still don't see the relevance of the Koch threat to the rest of the world outside the US? Kochs own the Supreme Court... you know, those beastly little bureaucrats who decide if a declared war is constitutional?

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/2011222144447212656.html

7734
Anonymous   ☪
7740
Anonymous 2011-02-26 22:14:16
You fucking miserable scum sucking socialist parasites that want to take on good Christians like Koch that pay their taxes and support your welfare asses should all be deported.

The Tea Party stands with Koch and you can kiss my red, white and blue ass!
7758
David Lucas 2011-02-26 23:41:02
Uhm your making allot of false assumptions like 1 these people are from america and 2 that the tea party is still the movement it started out.

Beyond that being a christian or american is still no excuse for allowing someone to get away with illegal practices. In fact it should call them to a higher standard not a lower one...

oh and if your going to be big and brave and talk shit you should at least post under your own name...
7776
Anonymous 2011-02-27 00:12:07
your being trolled.
it's not even a good troll.
don't feed the troll
7782
Anonymous   +1 namefag don't feed trolls
7783
david d Lucas   yea was a little drunk just cruisn the web and ended up spending the night feeding trolls alc and interwebs dont mix ty for the reminder.
10511
Anonymous   Troll has sad? :(
7820
Anonymous 2011-02-26 23:45:55
For those unfamiliar with American politics, I'd like to explain something. So-called "libertarians" like the Kochs are really corpratists in disguise. In a hyper-capitalist society like the U.S., most power naturally resides with the Rich. Only the government can provide balance and protect.Working People. Koch is out to cripple government bc once government is out of the way, the SuperRich have everything. That's also why Koch is going after teachers unions. The American Right Wing has slready destroyed private unions in the U.S. Koch is trying to clear the decks for complete corporate power and a total corporate takeover of government by the Rich.

This didn't just start. It's been going on for 40 years. If you want to see the modern history of the U.S, if you want to know where global warming deniers come from, the Kochs are who you want. A good time is guaranteed for all. Thanks.
7778
David lucas 2011-02-26 23:53:15
you make a good point but 40 years is a bit short sighted this has been going on since before the civil war and probably longer then that...
When i was in school are teachers taught us that even as far back as the roman empire the rich have been above the laws and that money and power has been transfered back and forth but never spread out only exchanged. The only true way to end things like this is to make greed a crime. and unfortunately i dont see that ever happening
7780
Anonymous   All true. But is has become more and more extreme. The U.S. Right wing hated FDR and the New Deal. Starting in 1973 the Right wing began an organized, surreptitious campaign. It is been going on ever since and the Kochs and the US Chamber of Commerce are the leaders.
7785
Anonymous 2011-02-27 00:39:43
"Chicago macroeconomic theory rejected Keynesianism in favor of monetarism until the mid 1970s, when it turned to new classical macroeconomics heavily based on the assumption of rational expectations. Chicago economists applied rational expectations to other areas in economics like finance, which produced the influential efficient market hypothesis."

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Chicago_school_%28economics%29
7797
Anonymous 2011-02-27 00:48:51
"Chicago economists seem to believe that real-world outcomes are acceptably unfair and, more importantly, that attempts to remedy unfairness are too costly, because tampering with markets causes economic inefficiency. They believe that government intervention tends to generate its own costly failures because of bureaucratic incompetence and rent-seeking, whereby private interests try to steer policy to their own advantage."

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/palley3/English
7799
Anonymous? 2011-02-27 01:19:58
A brief exploration of moralfaggotry (bear with me):

To my mind, this reference to the Chicago School (Friedman et al) and "rational self-interest" is--at this point--something worthy of laughter.

What was the economic crisis of 2008 if it wasn't the result of "rational self-interet"? The brokers, bankers, investors, and real-estate speculators were all conspicuously advancing their own self-interest in the name of bigger bonuses, higher returns on investments and providing desired investment vehicles.

If the collective result of pursuing rational self-interest is a kind of Capitalist Utopia, then October 2008 should be considered a feature of such a Utopia.

I have no problem with the Koch Brothers funding all of these think tanks or the economists and political types who blindly refuse to acknowledge the fly in their ideological soup. I have no problem with them funding Climate Change deniers, and they could fund Flat Earthers if they chose.

I do see that their Utopia is every bit as flawed as Communism, however, and like communists they must seek to nullify any argument or evidence that is not favorable to their ideology. In the end, I think, the pursuit of a Government reduced mostly to the primary role of contract enforcement is one that will serve the narrow interests of those with the most wealth.

In Orwellian terms, it too becomes a system where "All Animals Are Equal, but some Animals are more equal than others". It is leading us toward a system where fewer citizens will participate.

People won't like that much, so they will probably protest, but...that would be upsetting and threaten the moralfags who have decided their rational self-interest is more rational than others' rational self-interest, so those moral fags will most likely seek to suppress the other moralfags.

To me, that is Wisconsin in a nutshell: One set of moralfags have decided that the rational self-interest of another set of moralfags (collective bargaining) threatens their rational self-interest, so they are seeking to suppress the moralfags whose self-interest conflicts with their own.

In the end, all of this talk of rational self-interest being the guiding goal fails to recognize that what's in my self-interest may not be in yours, and you can bet those weilding that club assume their rational self-interest trumps everybody elses', and they must suppress/repress those that do not agree with them by one means or another.

Expected moralfag outcome: A system every bit as repressive as the Soviet Union but with free-market capitalism.

I'm done. Do as you will. Just my moralfaggotry.
7806
Anonymous   Agreed. Without government control Free Market Capitalism is as brutal and nasty as the failed Communist experiments. What the Kochs want is a plutocracy where the Rich control government completely. It has already happened and both American political parties have been captured by the corportists. That is why America and Americans need help. Why should you help? Because fixing America will help fix the world. Also because Right Wing psychopaths like the Kochs think nobody can touch them because they are rich and powerful. They've been acting in secret for decades and the lulz will never end.
7817
Anonymous   'Economics, red in tooth and claw'
7824
tkwelge 2011-02-27 07:59:37
I agree that the current crisis had a lot to do with monetarism. NOt all libertarians are monetarists. I'm more of a Rothbardian/Hayekian if that makes any sense.

The problem with monetarism is that it focused on keeping the price rate "stable." Price stability is sort of a red herring, since under a truly free economic structure, price decreases would be the name of the game as they were in the 1800's. The deflationary deathspiral is probably one of the biggest economic myths of the modern age.

A lot of the commentary that I'm reading is really short on intellectual cognition and long on biased shouting of platitudes.

Rational self interest is not perfect, but the main reason for the latest economic crisis is the expansion of credit and the monetary base. Period.
8024
tkwelge   The chicago school were simply conservative keynesians, nothing more.
8026
tkwelge   You vastly ignore the fact that bigger government leads to more corporatism, not less. Libertarians are against corporatism too.
8135
Anonymous   wtf? Boycotts? Newfags should piss off.
7814
Anonymous 2011-02-27 03:11:24
Are the Koch Bros. really against truth on Global Warming/Climate Change? Maybe they are a direct threat to every human in the future. Think about it, I'll use the tea party for example. Most (I think) don't believe in Global Warming, and will do whatever it takes to write it off as a hoax. So right about the time period when GB has had it's effect (decades/centuries), will it not involve every human on earth? I think this can be applied to any human in general. So if you were a human in the future, would you be willing to allow these people destroy the only planet that you are able to survive on? Would you allow them to kill you?

Anyways, I'm sorry for getting off subject.
Future-self:"if kuch bros. = don't help earth from GB then kuch bros = my death and the death of humans, so lets fuk em up!"

but of course, I will be long dead before GB is my problem, i'll go watch ufc 127 now; just obtained it legally DoD/DoJ
7847
tkwelge 2011-02-27 07:54:48
The people of the future will be infinitely wealthier than we are. That's like saying that we should go back in time and hold accountable the people of the 1900's for their actions, at a time when they were earning a tiny fraction of what we earn today.

Yeah, I'm going to go to a family of 12 living in a one room shack and tell them that they have to change their lifestyle for my benefit....
8018
Anonymous   I just bought moar Dixiecups for the lulz.
7849
Anonymous?   Lulz? You're stuck drinking out of dixiecups.
7851
Anonymous   And paper plates. Sad day, bro. Feels bad.
7871
Anonymous   why was contract law sacred when it came to giving huge bonuses to AIG and bailed-out banks, and when it came to kicking private companies accused of wrongdoing in Iraq & Afghanistan, but not when it comes to collective bargaining rights for workers?
7866
Anonymous? 2011-02-27 04:22:32
Some contract law is moar sacred than other contract law.

Why ask why?
7878
Anonymous   "Between equal right force decides."
7926
tkwelge 2011-02-27 07:52:43
voluntary transactions vs involuntary transactions

When the government negotiates with unions using my money, which I am not allowed to refuse to give, that contract is not admissible in my opinion.
8015
Anonymous 2011-02-27 05:02:24
Wow, sure is hipster faggot in here. Anonymous doesn't engage in partisan politics. Unions are just as shit as huge corps you dumbasses. Sounds to me like a few butthurt liberal faggot teens from /b/ are mad atthings they don't understand.

fuck this shit, go start a lefty anonymous and circlejerk there. don't highjack an entire movement to satisfy your own bullshit ends.

7901
Anonymous   This
7922
Anonymous   I'm not sure what you mean by partisan politics. Corporatists like the Kochs control both U.S. Political parties. If you could see the Kbros, the chamber of commerce, and goldman Sachs you'd see all there is for American capitalism and therefore world capitalism. The Democratic Party is just slightly better than the Republicans. My guess? The Kochs take a lot of Democrats down too, not only Republicans.
7948
tkwelge 2011-02-27 07:51:14
The whole "corporations" run the government thing is so overrated. Yes, corporations run advertisements and give money to candidates so that they can run advertisements of their own, but their are plenty of cases in which the person who spends the most loses the election.

Your seething bias is strong, sir.
8012
Anonymous 2011-02-27 10:46:05
corporations running the government has little if anything to do with elections, that's the point.

whichever party gets in, the agenda which is paramount is that of the corporations

read the cables dropped by WikiLeaks, the Dept of State is little more than a military-backed lobby group for US business

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
8307
tkwelge   Nothing stops you from going to the poll and unelecting the people that you find objectionable. The US is still a democratic nation.
8340
Anonymous 2011-02-27 11:32:05
unelecting in favour of whom? the other corporate candidate?

see?

get it yet?
8385
tkwelge 2011-02-27 14:22:54
No, you can even write in a name if you want to. WHy doesn't anonymous come up with a list of potential write-in votes come election time.

No, it's much easier to bitch about teh corporashuns....
8649
Anonymous   mere public ceremony
8824
tkwelge   Well, then put up or shut up. If the US is really only a democracy in name only, then I say bring the entire system down. Until you do that, you are simply part of the problem, annoying without making an effective change, going after people that support you simply because you don't like their political opinions....
9523
Anonymous   welcome to the party bus, first stop: Wisconsin
10169
Anonymous   I really don't know shit about these Koch brothers, but if they're dirty, I'm sure there're lulz are to get by leaking their shit, not by boycotting their products.
7915
Anonymous   Leaking their shit and the shit from the other foundations and billionaires controlling politics. Left or right you don't get that high up without stepping on a lot of people's dicks, anyone that high up has shit worth leaking for the lulz alone.
7930
Anonymous   Stepping on a lot of people's dicks is what anonymous does best.
7963
Anonymous 2011-02-27 05:49:20
leaving the partisanfaggotry at the door is a must.

that said, the potential for lulz in this situation is immense.

the world is watching Wisconsin and the Kochbaggers right now, anon must flex its brain juices for something bigger and lolier than boycotts and goatse faxes.....
7927
Anonymous 2011-02-27 06:03:59
Holy shit! Is there anything these guys DON'T own??

http://www.kochind.com/IndustryAreas/default.asp
7937
Anonymous 2011-02-27 06:08:42
wow gotta love their business model.


Step 1: Create massive industrial pollution/deny climate change

Step 2: Design and sell pollution control technologies

Step 3: ????

Step 4: PROFIT!
7940
Anonymous   You are the saviors. Thank you.
7938
Anonymous 2011-02-27 06:16:56
Sorry, Governor Walker, but we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. You will have to leave the restaurant.

Flat tire on your car, Governor? Good luck finding a union repair shop to fix it.

Broken windows on your office? Good luck finding a union glazier to replace them.

Sorry, we don't sell food to people who steal from the poor, Governor Walker. Buy your groceries elsewhere.

Make it so.

7943
Anonymous 2011-02-27 06:26:19
"What has to be done is what’s happening in Madison, or what’s happening in Tahrir Square in Cairo. If there’s mass popular opposition, any political leader is going to have to respond to it, whoever they are."
-- Chomsky

http://bit.ly/gql6MX
7946
tkwelge 2011-02-27 09:10:43
Fuck Chomsky
--tkwelge
8142
Anonymous 2011-02-27 07:39:31
"Huge Gatherings Nationwide in Solidarity with Wisconsin Democratic Uprising"

http://bit.ly/hmNkD2

As long as people (anons too) do nothing the Kochs and Walkers will do - get - what they want.

Is the U.S. theirs or ours?

The problem is that the Media are NOT covering WI without bias so that there is much misinformation being spread.

Anonymous can help by digging up some truths about Koch Industries' malfesance.

There are two kinds of people in the U.S. the literate and the illiterate, the intellectual and the anti-intellectual. The former get their info/facts from reading extensively, and the latter by WATCHING LIMITED TV NEWS CHANNELS.

Those here who are anti-union are in the latter group. So are those who think this debate is about WI's deficit. The new generation of Know Nothings.
7987
tkwelge   WOw, you're understanding of your intellectual rivals is so fucking small minded. What an asshole.
8006
Anonymous   Like the Right Wing media listeners and Tea Party members are SUCH intellectual giants. My bad.
8131
tkwelge   Was I defending "right wing media listeners" or "tea party members." I'm talking about the rivals who are actually quite intelligent and have a good argument. Of course, you'd rather ignore those people and go after the obvious crazies in order to stroke your own ego.
8140
Anonymous   Rivals who are quite intelligent and not to be, by definition, lumped in with illiterate, anti-intellectuals.
8143
tkwelge   Yeah, but I never hear anybody on this board recognizing that their opponents might have a logical viewpoint. The argument is simply that anybody who disagrees is stupid or corrupt. It can't possibly be anything else.
8162
Anonymous   You're stupid. Your fail pro-koch campaign is fail.
8771
scribe 2011-02-27 07:39:56
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer
Covert Operations: The billionaire Koch brothers who are waging a war against Obama.


7988
Anonymous   I wonder how many employees of koch would like to prank their boss...
8017
Anonymous 2011-02-27 07:58:42
Thank you, Anonymous!

Please expose the Koch brothers like you did Scientology. Both are equally dangerous to American democracy. If they succeed in taking over MORE of American government, all democracies are endangered.

The fight for liberty in our century is the fight against oligarchy.
8022
Shadowflare   Koch and Scientology are different creatures, however corrupt they both may be. Scientology incurred the wrath of Anon due to its penchant for abusing copyright laws and crushing free discussions online. Any human rights concerns were secondary, and the Chanology fight was entirely apolitical.
8156
Anonymous 2011-02-27 08:02:39
Police have been ordered to clear the Wisconsin State Capitol of protestors at 4pm local time (1 hour from post).

LIVE VIDZ
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/afl-cio-2010-rally

Kill the bill or GTFO
8029
Anonymous 2011-02-27 08:08:53
MOAR VIDZ
http://www.channel3000.com/localvideo/index.html?v=live
8041
Anonymous   Live http://qik.com/Brandzel
8296
Anonymous   I can't even tell you how warm and fuzzy it made me feel inside to see the Koch Suckers as your next target. FINALLY! Yes please, TAKE THEM DOWN. More than anyone else, they are single-handedly trying to subvert and destroy American democracy. Don't let them get away with it! Since they insist on staying in the shadows, only a shadow attack can bring them down.
8068
tkwelge   Donating to campaigns is now subverting US democracy?
8087
Anonymous   And apparently donating openly is staying in the shadows. Down is the new up.
8102
Anonymous 2011-02-27 08:31:21
strange to read about this a day after Reason posted this article, The Koch Brothers' Right-Wing Conspiracy to Undermine the PATRIOT Act:
http://reason.com/blog/2011/02/25/the-koch-brothers-right-wing-c
8086
Anonymous 2011-02-27 08:40:47
To those of you who hate what corporations do: why don't you start your own businesses and run them as you see fit? You're all so much smarter than conservatives, right, so it should be easy. The. You can let workers have whatever rights you want to give them. People would see the justice of your cause and copy your business model.

To me, this seems like a much better and more productive use of your time than trying to bring down a corporation that employs thousands and provides consumers with great products that they clearly want to buy.

P.S.- to those of you ripping capitalism, it's infinitely better than communism and socialism. And no, I don't watch Fox News. I don't watch msnbc or CNN or read daily kos or any other blatantly partisan nonsense.
8097
knowbuddhau 2011-02-27 08:48:31
And now for something completely different ... fresh hot Zen knock-knock jokes, free for the taking.

KNOCK-KNOCK
(hu's der?)
ANON
(anon hu?)
KNOW! ANON U!

KNOCK-KNOCK
(hu's der?)
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
(fred & donna spees hu?)
KNOW! FREEDOM OF SPEECH U!

!

KNOCK-KNOCK
(hu's der?)
KOCH HO
(koko hu?)
KNOW! KOCH HO U!

KNOCK-KNOCK
(hu's der?)
PSYOPS
(cyclops hu?)
KNOW! PSYOPS U!

!

BTW, has the import of this block-bluster report blown anyone else's minds yet? If PSYOP weapons are real weapons; and if US Army Lt. Gen. Caldwell really did attack sitting US Senators, as well as other of our public servants; then according to the principle so vividly written in "blood and fire" in MENA so recently: has our hated despot also forfeited Heaven's Mandate by this "secret-weapon" attack on We, the People, in Congress assembled?

We, my dearly beloved anonymous siblings, are under freakin' PSYOP "secret-weapon" attack right freakin' now.

Here in the time of #PSYOP:s, 'we're all [attacked nation] now' has a whole new meaning,' now don't it? http://uleak.it/?ac

#PaulJay @therealnews NAILS @CinC's wpnzd #BullyPulpit power. #Dominance via #American-made pseudo-democratic #kingdoms http://uleak.it/?b0

#PepeEscobar @asiatimesonline NAILS #Gaddafi's #Libya #PSYOP: 'Take me, civil war, or #MYTHOP du jour Osama bin Laden.' http://uleak.it/?b1

#PepeEscobar @asiatimesonline #Libya: "a concert of tribes ... will bring down the African king of kings." http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB26Ak05.html

From WI to MENA, may poetic justice be ascendant!

I bow in all y'all's vrrrtl drrrcxxns.

This concludes your moment of Zen. We now return to now, already in progress.
8113
Anonymous 2011-02-27 15:57:24
+9000
>"We, my dearly beloved anonymous siblings, are under freakin' PSYOP "secret-weapon"...."

and no one heard through the shouting.
Looks like it is working perfectly.

Anonymous wanted chaos and they got it.
they are laughing their ass off right about now.
8758
jfw 2011-02-27 09:15:48
In Australia the state utilities, water and power were deregulated with the claim of cheaper costing and supply to the consumers. Water and power bills(costs) have and are going up and up, 200% 300% and no sign off topping out. Its like printing money for the private corporations now in control.
Mr Julian Assange is a member of the Australian Journalist Association ( a union).
Unions here have been systematically taken out of play so private corporations can control conditions and pay.
Unions here got 40hr week and safe working conditions for all.
the government (either side) works with corporations and the media to enslave joe citizen so the elite can do their thing.
Yes corporations are fair game but the evil MSM that keeps both government and corporations from scrutiny rather praising and supporting their profile ummm there is a target. Good luck Anons.
8148
tkwelge 2011-02-27 09:26:54
Privatization does not necessarily mean simply lower costs. For example, privatization of public roads would probably lead to increased costs, but also decreased congestion and increased new road construction.

In texas, after electricity was deregulated, the price increased, but the cost of inputs increased more than the increase in the price the customer paid. Also, demand for electricity also skyrocketed during this period.

The companies that charge the most for electricity in texas are usually the old monopolies that were still allowed to hang on to a substantial amount of their infrastructure after deregulation.

Unions can only create benefits by creating disbenefits for others.
8168
jfw   Unions here stopped people being killed at work. Gave them dignity and honour. Unions here did not take but gave to society.Deregulation here has no benifits except to corporate profits.
8175
tkwelge   I don't deny that unions may have pushed for more safety in the workplace, but that safety in the workplace carried an increased costs. It was the accumulation of wealth up until that point that made such reform possible. In the preindustrial age, you would have been fairly happy just to not starve. Given a little bit more time, the increased wealth of the working classes and increased competition for skilled labor would have led to increased workplace safety.
8212
jfw   Here it was union strikes, protests and trials that brought social change in the form of fair wages and conditions. Before the Industrial revolution the agrarian society lived from farms and had normal lives. The concentration of people to the cities brought by industry and to mining by the power necessary for industry caused social decay. Alcoholism crime and shorter life span in the chronic and hazardous conditions imposed on the city labourer was due to the wealthy ignoring the plight of the masses. It was the people that demanded better conditions, removing their labour till they got it. Strikes forced the hand of the industrialists for they are not benevolent. Please read the union history of Australia for a balanced view of the blood shed for dignity.
8750
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:17:24
Bullshit, the unskilled wage grew and grew between 1800 and the 1880's when the union movement first began to truly appear on the scene.

The idea that people were suffering and earning nothing until the unions came along is such a huge myth. Yes, the working conditions of 1870 were a lot worse than the working conditions of today, but the working conditions of 1870 were a lot better than the working conditions of the 1780's.

The unions simply ran out in front of a crowd, had a few victories, and then got co opted by government forces.
9534
Anonymous   You're stupid. Your fail pro-koch campaign is fail.
8770
jfw   Cost of production for water and electricity have increased marginally. The argument for cheaper price was based on false assumption that competition would lower the cost not increase it. In practice possibly through collusion the costs are increasing.
8191
jfw   The unions here set basic wages. Rather than who would work cheapest the unions made sure all, non unionist too, got at least a certain pay rate for the same work. That is democratic and collective conscience at work.
8201
tkwelge   No, that is prohibiting markets from clearing. Setting the wage artificially high simply kept some people out of the workforce, or forced them to seek alternative employment in areas where they were less happy.
8214
jfw 2011-02-27 14:29:00
No it is not artificially high it is the value of the product of labour. Your method reduces a wage to the lowest value any individual will do the work for. That is the capitalist's dream cheap labour. By setting minimum wages and hourly rates there is a guarantee of income. In America I understand people work for $4 an hour and can not afford the necessities of life. That is social slavery in action.
In Australia the lest you can receive is around $10 an hour for adults. We have free universal health and dental care, free hospitals and many social welfare programmes including public housing. If we can afford it, America must be spending its resources on war not its people.
8657
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:23:42
Yeah, but the lowest value that anybody is willing to work for is not the same thing as "cheap labor." I know that a lot of people who wouldn't work for less than 30,000 dollars a year. I hardly consider that to be a subsistence wage.

Once again, unskilled laborer wages rose all through the 1800's before unions even really began to appear on the scene.

Nobody in America works for $4 dollars an hour unless they are working in a tipped job. The dollar amount of your salary is irrelevant anyway. It is what you can purchase with your salary that makes a difference. Also, only something like 1 to 4% of the population works actually works for the minimum wage at any given time.

Raising the wage rate simply raises the price level, and forces others to stay unemployed or seek more objectionable employment.

I completely agree that the US spends its resources on war and not its people.

Luckily, the koch's are anti war and reason/cato are screaming from the top of their lungs that military spending must be cut!
9542
Anonymous   you're stupid. Your fail pro-koch campaign is fail.
8763
jfw 2011-02-27 09:52:43
Humphrey McQueen: WikiLeaks and the fight for free speech
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/46846
8213
GuyNextDoor 2011-02-27 10:39:55
The impact by the Koch brothers is much, much deeper and much more harmful than the recent events in Wisconsin. For example:

According to a Greenpeace report, from 2005 to 2008, Koch It's
Industries and the foundations under its control donated $5.7 million on political campaigns and $38 million on direct lobbying to support fossil fuel industries. The report also asserts that between 1997 and 2008, Koch Industries donated nearly $48 million to climate change skeptic groups, exceeding even the donations of ExxonMobil, and nearly $10 million to the Mercatus Center, $3.3 million to the Heritage Foundation, over $5 million to the Cato Institute (all 1997-2008), and $5 million to Americans for Prosperity (2005–2008).[27] Koch Industries and its subsidiaries spent more than $20 million on lobbying in 2008 and $12.3 million in 2009, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Koch_family

------
Among Koch Industries’ better known subsidiaries across various industries are:

Georgia-Pacific paper and pulp company, maker of Brawny paper towels, Angel Soft toilet paper, Mardi Gras napkins and towels and Quilted Northern toilet paper.

Invista, a polymer and fibers company that makes Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra fiber, among other products.

Koch Pipeline Company LP, that owns and operates 4,000 miles of pipeline used to transport oil, natural gas liquids and chemicals.

Flint Hill Resources LP, that operates oil refineries in six states.

Koch Fertilizer, LLC, owns or has interests in fertilizer plants the United States, Canada, Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela, and Italy, among others.
-----

Koch Industries is one of the dirtiest conglomerates in the world - quite literally...

8286
Jbl 2011-02-27 10:45:12
US oil company donated millions to climate sceptic groups, says Greenpeace. Report identifies Koch Industries giving $73m to climate sceptic groups 'spreading inaccurate and misleading information'

"Koch industries is playing a quiet but dominant role in the global warming debate. This private, out-of-sight corporation has become a financial kingpin of climate science denial and clean energy opposition. On repeated occasions organisations funded by Koch foundations have led the assault on climate science and scientists, 'green jobs', renewable energy and climate policy progress," it says.

The groups include many of the best-known conservative thinktanks in the US, like

- Americans for Prosperity,
- the Heritage Foundation,
- the Cato institute,
- the Manhattan Institute and
- the Foundation for research on economics and the environment.

All have been involved in "spinning" the "climategate" story or are at the forefront of the anti-global warming debate, says Greenpeace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/mar/30/us-oil-donated-millions-climate-sceptics
8305
tkwelge 2011-02-27 11:09:50
Yes, we all know that the Koch's have donated to climate skepticism, but that doesn't make them evil. As far as I can tell, they believe in their cause, and they are up front in their efforts. They aren't even asking for special treatment. They are simply opposing a viewpoint. How is that inherently evil.

The Cato institute is hardly a "denialist" organization. How many of these "denialist" organizations simply object to government climate management? That isn't the same thing as being a "denialist."
8348
Anonymous   You're stupid. Your fail pro-koch campaign is fail.
8765
Anonymous 2011-02-27 11:15:17
The Koch brothers, along with fellow billionaire George Soros and other organizations, each donated $10 million to the American Civil Liberties Union to help defeat parts of the USA PATRIOT Act

Since 2000, Koch has pledged and/or donated more than $600 million to the arts, education and medical research, more than he gave to political causes.
8357
Billy Bollocks   The soundtrack to this movement must be the New White Trash - www.NewWhiteTrash.com. This music speaks truth to power. Band members include uber-activist Michael C Ruppert. New White Trash is being heard on the streets of Madison, WI.
8310
Anonymous   newfag gtfo, dont advertise to me your music tastes are shit, not worth me reading your shit post.


8458
Anonymous   wtf is up with all the namefags? fucking cancer everywhere.
8754
Anonymous 2011-02-28 03:13:24
Newfags who heard about anon from their friends.

Their cancer will kill 'em.
9355
Anonymous   knock the grins off their face!
8430
Anonymous 2011-02-27 12:45:09
i must be in the wrong place. i came here for pony pictures?
where can i find those on your website?
8464
joe jordanson   dude this is a serious web discussion on important issues, try to stay on topic
8470
joe jordanson   beside ponies are not even cool
8473
Anonymous   stfu namefag. Don't tell anons what to do.
8752
Anonymous   The topic is now ponies, which is srs bizness.
9350
Anonymous 2011-02-27 12:51:59
ponies are super cute!
fuck you Mr jordanson
8478
Anonymous   i like ponies too!
8490
Anonymous   Get them and their slimy offshoot political influence buying tendrils!
8488
Anonymous   FIGHT DA POWAH
8523
AlliedMob 2011-02-27 13:41:10
Corporations are protected by the 14th amendment as entities with the same rights as private citizens. Unions are organizations that have constitutional protection under the 1st amendment as a rightful assembly.

The minute difference between a corporation and a union is sweet sweet rhetoric. Union, rightfully, should call themselves corporations in order to have the same legal rights that protect these corporations that they have to "collectively bargain" with. Collective bargaining is an issue between unions and corporations because, as a "rightful assembly" of unincorporated individuals, the Constitution only protects the organization process, and so the right of "collective bargaining" is only protected under various malleable laws at the state and federal level enacted back when people cared about their ability to live as more than wage-slaves (trust busts).

I don't have a fine-toothed knowledge of Constitutional law and its millions of applications, but I do know that is why corporations can be sued, but unions can't, its also the same reason why organizations of capitalists and investors have differently protected privileged rights compared to organizations of workers.

I've noticed the problem is current apathy is the thought of hoping to die. Between all the apocalyptic nostradamus bullshit we watch on TV, reality is giving people a more constrained ability to feely think and choose and practice what used to be known as Social Mobility.

My parents used to think in the 70's that they'd have flying cars by 2000. What is our generation dreaming of? Doom, Death, Inevitability, Greasing the gears of society for table scraps of the ideal lifestyle.
8587
jfw   In the sixties as children we were taught to react to the first flash of the A bomb. We had drills to duck and cover under our desks if we saw the brilliant flash. We were told if in the open cower near the gutter so we wouldn't be vapourized. Ban the bomb was the chat I grew up with and we lived in fear of the cold war and instantaneous death. No wonder we all took drugs in the 70's.
8766
Anonymous   Unions can be sued fucktard.
12444
Anonymous 2011-02-27 14:24:37
From the working folks in Wisconsin--thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your support. This fight is far from over, and win lose or draw we will fight.

I would give an arm and a leg to be able to read the ins and outs of digital correspondence in the governor's office right now.
8652
Wyliekat   Way to go! Good to see someone powerful fighting for the little guy.
8684
Anonymous   there are much bigger fish in the US of A, but +1
8690
Gibe   100K strong in WI thanks Anonymous for your support
8694
Anonymous 2011-02-27 16:00:45
I thought you guys were into next-level, watershed events. This is just parroting bullshit spewed onto us by our parents and grandparents generations. These "issues" are obsoleting themselves even as we speak.
It's shameful that you are stooping to this level. I really thought you folks got that the world is changing rapidly and that distraction issues like this one only hinder that progress. You make me sad, anons.
8762
Anonymous   oh noes, we made you sad.... please die you emo bitch.
8768
Anonymous? 2011-02-27 16:08:16
LOL +1 for emo bitch.

Best on-the-ground report out of WI:

Governor Gadaffi Walker will never back down before protesters. The best way to balance the state budget is to deny people their rights. Next, to solve the Federal budget problem with Medicare, we will take the vote away from senior citizens. As China has taught us, the best way to manage the economy is to make people shut up and do what they are told.
8772
Anonymous   i'll take corporations over mobsters any day you fucking child
8785
Anonymous   >implying there's a difference
8793
Anonymous   corps are generally individualist, mob is collectivist also mob divvies out its assets like fiefdoms
8797
Anonymous   at least with mobsters you know where you stand.

8927
Anonymous   they have a sense of... shame, isn't quite it, but an awareness that they face consequences should their exploits be known - put on a suit and tie, operate out of a shiny building at the big end of town, and you can do just about whatever the fuck you want with impunity, as long as you keep the right people happy
8937
Anonymous 2011-02-27 16:29:36
it's an age-old tale

master / slave - the dialectic is shifting, as exemplified by Mohammed Bouazizi who chose to die rather than live in subjugation - his example has triggered a cascade of courage across the Maghreb

now folks in Wisconsin have got the message too

the meek have decided being meek is for suckers

exciting times - see the big picture; be happy
8808
Anonymous   so someone telling you where you can work, how much you can make and then taking a cut of that money is the champion cause of the little man? get a job sir
8823
Anonymous   bigger picture
8831
Anonymous   I have a job. My union protects it from abuse, which it would be in a NY minute if not for the union.
8859
tkwelge   Then you can find another job. If you stayed there, you'd be making the calculation that you didn't really care so much about the lack of safety, and that you'd rather have the money.
9549
Anonymous   could be any more of a simpleton?
9240
Anonymous 2011-02-27 18:28:02
caling all emo-lefty-fags

aim your LOIC cannons at the Koch Bros!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

for graet justice
8989
Anonymous   that you Shirley?
9009
Anonymous   All for going after Koch. I'd love to see their laundry made public. I don't think going after WI.gov is appropriate cause then you end up fucking over the people of WI that need services.
9014
Anonymous   the united states of america is so badly fucked up this cant be much worse
9049
Anonymous 2011-02-27 21:10:17
Do not forget to boycott these as well:
http://www.invista.com/en/brands/index.html

Invista is owned by Koch. Do not buy any clothing that contains these fabrics. Most clothing will contain tags touting the fact that the fabrics are used.
9114
Anonymous   Who buys any brands anyway?
9125
G Fawkes 2011-02-27 21:55:11
Why is that the average American doesn't understand that global warming is real? It is the ONLY developed country in the world which is so backwards and this has held back global treaties for decades... Why is that Americans don't believe or read anything that their absolute top scientists say is real (National Academy of Sciences)?
Follow the trail. Follow the trail back to the spin factories... and who have been funding them?


Why Are Americans So Ill-Informed about Climate Change?

Scientists and journalists debate why Americans still resist the consensus among research organizations that humans are warming the globe.
February 23, 2011

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-are-americans-so-ill&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_BS_20110225



Open letter: Climate change and the integrity of science
Full text of an open letter from 255 members of the US National Academy of Sciences in defence of climate research

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/06/climate-science-open-letter
9137
Anonymous 2011-02-27 22:46:06
sadly, Australia is no less recalcitrant

even sadder? some within Anonymous are planning an #opAustralia to attack the government for finally managing to propose something like a meaningful response
9160
Anonymous 2011-02-27 22:46:56
@G Fawkes

Not all Americans are ill-informed about climate change and global warming, but the right-wing Republicans are. The world needs to realize this. Right-wingers will argue till the sun goes down that it does not exist.
9163
G Fawkes   No question about that. The Koch bros don't represent all Americans!
9209
Anonymous   Why is it you don't understand most anon's don't give a shit about your pet peeves?
9348
tkwelge   I think that most americans do recognize climate change as a reality, even if they say that they don't. It isn't that they are uninformed, it's just that they don't want to bend over to government solutions that probably won't make the situation better and will fuck up a lot of people at the same time.
9547
Anonymous   .....what about the Arizona Administration!!?
9149
Anonymous   The Koch Bros oppose collective action by the people because that threatens corporate power. That's why they hate labor unions and government. The Kochs want corporations to be treated like people and people treated like shit. They are nothing but greedy bastards who will let the world drown and starve if they can make an extra dollar selling their dirty hydrocarbon fuel. They are creeps and they are psychopaths who think they are gods because they are rich. Smack those phony smirks off their pasty faces. But be careful because they very dangerous and sophisticated.
9174
tkwelge   You're right, there can't possibly be any reason that anybody would oppose unions at all. I mean, what was I thinking?
9552
Anonymous   I believe what Anonymous is doing is right. Our govt has failed us and it can and will only get worse. If they keep letting corporations and banks doing the things they are then the next economic crisis will bring this whole country down, worse than it is now. You have support from GA!!!!
9224
Anonymous 2011-02-28 01:12:19
@G Fawkes, You're right, the Koch Brothers don't represent all Americans, but neither do the unions.

And ya'll gotta be kidding me about global warming? Lolz. There's no such thing.
9230
Anonymous 2011-02-28 01:14:47
Since when did Anonymous become an agent for yuppie freshmen populist politics?

Unions are deeply entrenched, wealthy, hardball political players. They are not helpless babes in the woods. They have their own agenda, same as 'corporations'.

Union membership is a very small slice of the public. Though it's members may be middle class, it is a small member of the middle class. And it the majority 'other' in that group that is hit hard, in terms of tax/income, to pay for benefit packages.

Koch brothers are one of many wealthy political backers. George Soros backs almost every left-leaning political group under the sun, and I don't recall Anonymous shitting pixels over that.

What's going on is a battle cry against wealthy elite by other wealthy elite. Newsflash: it's all a rich man's game. Being a black pawn instead of a white pawn doesn't doesn't make you a freedom fighter. It's all BS.

9234
2011-02-28 02:31:57
Your ignorance, and your apathy toward working people is disgusting.

George Soros this. George Soros that.

If you think the protests in Wisconsin and all of the other cities around the US and the world over this version of capitalism, correctly labeled 'fascism', is in any way funded by Soros, you are a gullible fool.

STOP listening to and watching Fox News. They are not news. They are not interested in honest reporting. They are funded by billionaires who stand to prosper immensely off of you and me with the ceaseless propagation of their lies.

Heap on all of the other millionaire reich wing broadcasters for the same reasons. Just WHO do you think they are really looking out for?

Prove you are not an idiot by answering "not me".
9313
Anonymous 2011-02-28 03:03:04
I like to imagine Rick from 'The Young Ones' screaming at his keyboard as the author of most of these posts.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. That's what I think about this yuppie populist slag. It doesn't even make sense:

-Unions make up less than 12% of the 'working man'. Beyond that, what do 'Corporations' have anything to do with *Public* unions. These are organization revolving around (mostly white-collar) employees, politicians (who make contracts while taking union money and votes), and tax payers. Business isn't involved in the equation.

-Having thousands of union members protest is just slightly different than having thousands of citizens with no finical stake in the fight protest.

New to use: Unions are wealthy and powerful. Whatever you think of them, they are not helpless bystanders. They are not run by a collection of 'working people'. They are run by millionaire lawyers and political lobbyists.

Like above, rich 'progressive' allies are the exact same parasites as rich Republican allies. White pawn, black pawn...the game is the same.

9347
Anonymous 2011-02-28 13:37:31
"They are not run by a collection of 'working people'. They are run by millionaire lawyers and political lobbyists."

One highly relevant distinction from corporations of whom the same could be said: unions are run FOR 'working people' by the lawyers and lobbyists which represent them.

Corporations are run only for the benefit of their owners; the dogma of Friedman remains, 'the social responsibility of a corporation is to increase its profits' - it is assumed that all else will take care of itself via the 'invisible hand', but at the same time, those corporations, in pursuing their sole social responsibility, are lobbying constantly to strip away what external constraints and regulations to which they are subject (and which stand between them and their only legitimate function).

Neither regulated from within by being required to consider social consequences for their activities beyond the accumulation of profit, nor regulated adequately from without.

It's no wonder they present such an unprecedented threat to a democracy which never invisaged such sociopathic behemoths striding its stage, dismantling its institutions, and turning its people into wage-slaves.
10053
Anonymous   Koch Bros. I know your operatives are reading this post. I am underemployed and need a job. Please contact me so that I can become one of your most effective net trolls. I will sing the praises of your company, much like the others in here and I am a much better writer. Contact me through YouTube. Thank you in advance.
9250
Koch Industires   Check your email.
9251
Anonymous   Thank god for anonymous...Koch must have their henchmen sending you letters. There is only one reason for people to write what some of these contributors have written.
9262
Anonymous   Anonymous, okay, NOW you're officially Robin Hood. But you don't have to wear tights unless you're into that.
9266
Anonymous   Since Anonymous lives in their mothers basement and Anonymous has never had a job that paid more that $10/hr, it would thus behoove Anonymous to not get involved in the Public-sector Union debate since these are the people who are milking the system (the system that we are FORCED to pay into) for everything. Unions harbor the laziest and most unproductive trash of society. Maybe Anon is Union?
9273
Anonymous   I hope your home catches on fire and the union firefighters shrug their shoulders and say "whatevs. we're lazy, unproductive trash" while they watch it burn to the ground.
9336
Anonymous   Lazy and unproductive trash work at McD's and they still get my order right...most of the time.
9974
Anonymous 2013-03-01 14:15:14
I made over 100,000 last year. Go Fuck your generalization. I think its sick that the Koch Bro. have so much power and money and are using it to get more. You don't hear us bitching about Bill Gates. the Kochs are evil and need to be eliminated from the money/power game.

Take away their money and they loose their power. Boycotting these direct products is straight forward. Once that is done, we can go after their other interests, one at a time, until they crawl under a rock (or country club of their choice) where they belong. It's sick to think that they are more politically powerful than millions of votes. Does that sound like democracy to you, you sick fuck?
54245
Anonymous   This is proof that the system is working: The teachers are so good at teaching the children that corporations, greed, and profit are so bad. Then the teachers go to their state legislators (instead of classrooms) to protest about their 70,000/yr job with full benefits they get from the STATE (i.e TAXES) and not corporations. The whole time they are doing this the Children that they teach are getting dumber by the day, and then those kids are standing up for the teachers who fail to teach them! If Anon wants change, start by going after the real crooks
9283
Anonymous   shut up newfag.
22893
Anonymous 2011-02-28 03:19:33
So nothing? Didn't think so.

NYPA
9360
Anonymous? 2011-02-28 03:27:02
All you need to know about Koch and AFP is that AFP officially opposes net neutrality.

This is because Corporations are people++ .

Telecoms, according to AFP, should have the right to limit subscriber access to content (e.g. block access to sites, other networks, and so on).


In AFP's Utopia, Telecoms have the freedom to restrict your access. You are perfectly free to run your own transcontinental broadband cables, put up your own satellites if you disagree. Welcome to Utopia.

http://stopthecap.com/2010/05/11/americans-for-prosperity-backed-by-big-telecom-is-back-with-more-net-neutrality-opposition/
9368
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:32:04
No, they oppose net neutrality because the company that builds the network should have the ability to decide what gets carried on that network and how.

You may not agree with that opinion, but that doesn't mean that they are doing something as bad as stifling speech or anything like that.

Personally, I'd rather see network sharing agreements than net neutrality. No country on earth has net neutrality in place. The countries with the highest quality internet DEFINITELY do not have net neutrality laws.
9558
Anonymous 2011-02-28 05:48:45
This censorship is not censorship because the telecoms get to decide what content and connections you make is a real Kocksucking argument, IMO.

*BTW, the providers didn't exactly build that infrastructure without subsidies and assistance either.
9580
Anonymous 2011-02-28 04:19:38
You have proven that there are good people out there who are not selfish about helping their fellow man. Keep it up. I hope you bring the Koch garbage and their like to their knees.

Power to the people.
9435
tkwelge 2011-02-28 05:34:49
IT is really sad that Anonymous has gone from being a protector of free speech to an enforcer of economic policy. Sigh.....

If the argument is really that people have the freedom to associate, I'm completely on board with that. I just don't think that it works that way for people who have a captive customer base. The teacher's union is a lobby. Pure and simple.
9562
Anonymous   Freedom to associate would seem to include forming a group to "lobby" on your collective behalf so what's your point
9578
Anonymous 2011-02-28 05:51:42
The Kochsucking point is that money = free speech, so if you have more money, you have more free speech, freedom to associate, and so on.

That's the Kochsucking point.
9583
Anonymous   Go Anon! Expose the Koch brothers on our behalf PLEASE? We little people can't fight the money!
9652
Anonymous 2011-02-28 07:15:31
Thanks
We need you and we need WikiLeaks

9665
Rabid 2011-02-28 08:31:28
Koch Industries=the Umbrella Corp. http://www.kochind.com/
They have their greedy little fingers in a number of public consumer areas, including a ranch that caters to the Republican redneck vacation needs.

Anyone that can do damage to the corporate enslavement of America is a folk hero. Kudos Anonymous.
9743
Anonymous   anonymous is an interesting form of union
9753
Anonymous 2011-02-28 08:41:55
Koch Bros. gave $43K to Scott Walker.. Big Whoop.

They gave 20 MILLION DOLLARS to the ACLU to fight the obscenely mis-named "Patriot Act". Remember when phony, fraud, goose stepping "progressives" were outraged by the Patriot Act?

Oh yeah. That was before Dear Leader Obama
successfully lobbied for and signed the re-authorization of the "Patriot Act".
9756
Anonymous 2011-02-28 08:49:12
Yawn
Do us a favor and at least do a wikipedia read of the patriot act before you post.

Kochsucking troll.
9762
Anonymous 2011-02-28 09:02:17
Four plus years after Dems took over the House and Senate. Two plus years after Dear Leader Obama was inaugurated;

Still got war in Iraq? Check.

War with triple the troops in Afghanistan? Check.

Got increase of Predator Drones invading Pakistan airspace and murdering people in their beds? Check.

Still got Gitmo? Check.

Still got Patriot Act Fed Guv authority to tap your phone and email? Check.

Got the thug AG Eric Holder defending "rendition" so "terrorist" can be sent to third world countries for "questioning"? Check.

It's the third term of the Bush Administration- ON STERIODS. And phony, fraud, national Socialist "progressives" like the moron I'm responding to here are A-OK with it.
9783
me   I hope someone ass rapes you with a jagged shard of glass
10609
Anonymous 2011-03-01 11:18:00
shit, it'd be nice if it weren't true, but it is

obama is surely the final proof that non-trivial change is simply no longer possible in your corporate controlled demockracy
10956
Anonymous 2011-02-28 08:50:46
David Koch was once the Vice presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party. His platform included- End the war on drugs, decriminalize drugs. Abolish the CIA.

Your hero Obummer still throws people in prison for smoking weed.

Obummer LOVES the CIA- They tell him which Pakistani houses full of men, women and children to to obliterate with his missile armed Predator Drones.
9764
Anonymous 2011-02-28 09:05:08
To the individual speaking of the $70,000/year teachers salaries:

You have your head up your ass. I wish I could put this in a different way, but it's really clear that you don't know a damn thing about teachers, unions or politics so why bother. Read a book. Read some internet. Do some research.

A corporate CEO, a tea party activist and a union worker all sit down at a table with a dozen cookies between them. The CEO reaches across the table and takes eleven cookies. He then turns to the tea party activist and says "don't let that guy take your cookie!"
9787
Anonymous 2011-02-28 12:08:00
http://bridge.caspio.net/dp.asp?AppKey=11cf0000f4g2h6h4g7b2i8a3g6f0


72k average for a high school teacher, plus 20k in benefits.
Principals are 130+
And THEY ONLY WORK 8 MONTHS A YEAR!
Stupid socialists trolls
9985
HELP PLEASE 2011-02-28 09:06:23
URGENT:

Gov. Walker is welder shut capitol windows to deny protestors access to food. Get on it please.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/heathery2010/wisconsin-gop-leader-democratic-staffers-copy-machines_n_829259_79017054.html
9790
Anonymous 2011-02-28 09:18:02
Scott Walker is the real progressive here.

He's fighting the union thugs who are organized for the sole purpose of extorting ever more tax money from the working families of Wisconsin. Families who make less than union thugs, familes who have to pay for their own health care, families who must fund their own pensions if they even have pensions.
9810
Anonymous   families who wouldn't be bearing such a burden had Walker not cut the state's revenue by giving tax-cuts to those able to bear the cost of giving union families a fair deal
10183
Anonymous   To get a Guv job in Wisconsin, you must join the union, must pay dues which WILL be funneled to the Dem party and its candidates. Then the Dem party will "collectively bargain" away the taxpayers money to please the entity they depend on for their very existence. The Gambino, Columbo and Genovese families would kill to get hold of a scam like this.
9826
Anonymous   Kock-sucking lie-posting troll.
10408
From Wisconsin   How about a complete listing of all Wisconsin buisnesses that have ties to the cock brothers?
9831
Anonymous   Knock yourself out, but what does that have to do with the price of beans? The government union owned Dems didn't fund GuvUnionThug wages, healthcare and pensions from Koch Bros. or other businesses. They funded them from sales, real estate and income taxes on Wisconsin's working families. Wisconsin per capita income is $36k per year.
9849
Anonymous   News flash - public service workers are Wisconsin's working families.
9969
Anonymous 2011-03-06 15:22:58
And part of that per capita income rating comes from the public union member's income.
So the number is actually much lower.
So your evidence for the need to lower the pay of these people is that there are other people making less?
The only thugs I see are the lazy wealthy class that are trying to steal even more earnings and rights from the middle class- can't have those pesky rights getting in the way of profit, can we?

Do you need to watch Faux "News" to be able to feel like you are a maverick, or do you think you're a maverick because you watch Faux "News"?
15180
Anonymous 2011-02-28 12:10:10
http://bridge.caspio.net/dp.asp?AppKey=11cf0000f4g2h6h4g7b2i8a3g6f0


72k average for a high school teacher, plus 20k in benefits.
Principals are 130+
And THEY ONLY WORK 8 MONTHS A YEAR!
Stupid socialists trolls
9987
Anonymous   $72K??? Put down the bong before you post next time.
10404
Anonymous   The link is to Wisconsin's own school data of what they pay teachers and administrators (public). I encourage all to go and look at the numbers for themselves. Teachers are overpaid today, and unions are to thank/blame.
10636
Anonymous 2011-03-02 00:45:22
Teachers are definitely overpaid:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary

When you make $40k/year for working 180 days (less than 8hrs/day) then it becomes clear they are paid even higher than police professions on an hourly basis.

Now teaching isn't easy, but it sure beats the hell out of dodging bullets...

11534
Anonymous   Your falling for a trick of costaccountingfaggetry. Actual teachers put in many hours outside the counted workday. Otherwise, do you think they just make all that shit up on the spot every minute of every day?
12447
Anonymous   Based on the current results of our Public Schools one would be inclined to think so
15274
Anonymous 2011-02-28 12:59:12
You are so wrong. Watch or read this.

Matt Taibbi: "Why Isn’t Wall Street in Jail?"
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/2/22/matt_taibbi_why_isnt_wall_street_in_jail
10022
Anonymous   Dang comment got posted in the wrong place. Was a response to some call Walker a hero.
10024
Anonymous   The official state budget accounting office (non partisan) for Wisconsin projected a budget SURPLUS this year. Since Gov. Walker was elected a month ago he has given away $140 million in tax breaks to big business. The state now has a budget shortage of $137 million. Tax breaks to business is the reason for the budget crisis, not workers pay. This is not about American workers bankrupting the state treasury. It’s political and corporate. This is just plain wrong and should be offensive to every hard working American. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zhZtYRiIho0
10046
Anonymous 2011-03-04 04:28:09
Bullshit. The tax breaks don't take effect until 2013. By July 2011 Wisconsin will be in the red.

Try to do some fucking research, tool.
14505
ricoshea   no windows were welded shut per the local news.
10055
big dumb guy   Yah, take em' down. You guys are heros.
10081
Anonymous   Thanks Anonymous! If you can find any interesting information about these guys and Walker and post it to Wikileaks, that would be even better imho... thanks for supporting human rights and democracy!
10136
Anonymous   Anonymous - 2011-03-01 09:42:06 Charles Koch's son Chase ran over and killed a boy in Wichita when he was 16. Some witnesses said he was racing but no investigation was done and no charges filed.
10605
Anonymous   Who cares?
11509
Anonymous   the wealthy should be subject to the same laws as everyone else
11607
Anonymous 2011-03-02 14:10:48
That I can agree with, don't expect big govt. to care.

The FBI didn't give a shit about what happened to wikileaks but pissed themselves over what we're doing.

My hopes just aren't up at all... :-(

12210
Anonymous 2011-02-28 16:22:14
Take out these pricks next, they paid to put their Obama smears at the top of Google's search for "Obama Myths". I'll bet it's also a Koch front.

http://www.obamamythbusters.com/
10261
Anonymous   Front of a cock? Pr0n?
11669
Anonymous   NYPA
11674
Anonymous   Well, the AFP website is still working fine. Nice "takedown" (NOT).
10402
Wat   Hey, Anonymizers, thanks a lot for what you're doing! And I really hope you can take down the AFP website for a long time. I give you my permission, as I have now posted my deeply considered spew on their contact link.
10422
Anonymous   Charles Koch's son Chase ran over and killed a boy in Wichita when he was 16. Some witnesses said he was racing but no investigation was done and no charges filed. The boy he killed was my friend
10590
Fan 2011-03-01 04:16:15
You go guys... Be the champion of the little guy who doesn't have a voice or an inkling of power. For the people who can't match the forces aligned against them who seek to beat them down even further. With great power comes great responsibility, using your hacking powers, your IT knowledge to challenge the American aristocrats who like their European brethren of old were never satisfied with massive amounts of wealth and power, they always wanted more. Use your abilities to expose the fraud being thrust upon the American people, to expose how the masses are being manipulated to serve the uber rich.

Super Hero Nerds taking on the oligarchs in the US. Bring em down.
10679
Anonymous   You're a USEFUL IDIOT!
11288
In Your Face Radio   We ARE the little guy y'all are talking about. In a million years we'll never be able to compete with main stream media propaganda, big net radio, or the Koch bros, but we won't give up working hard to give everyone a voice. Our hosts are in Madison (ON Wisconsin) - Tennessee - California and Texas and we all believe in free speech through net neutrality and playing music with a message. Because we stream from the US, we've been threatened a shut down by the RIAA for playing copyrighted music - (unlike The Pirate Bay who can't be touched by them) We've been attacked by people who hate democracy, our voices and the message we speak. BUT .. we'll push on. We can't donate coin right now but know we support you. Thank you for all you do. JD
10760
AlliedMob 2011-03-01 10:33:29
Myth: Unions were solely organized to extort money from investors

History of Myth: 2 decades of sparse national headlines of trial cases
outlining criminal infiltration of unions based in New
Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Illinois

Historical Base of Unions:
Unions started organizing during the middle of the industrial revolution because of the rapidly changing and harsh work conditions imposed by investors and bosses. Corporations and investors shifted with the times by hiring women to work in factories instead of union workers. When legislation forbid this they employed children. After this proved (yeah it needed proving) inhumane the First World War just ended and Europe was already on the path to WWII. Once the Lend-Lease Act, providing limitless supplies to the Allied nations, was signed corporations and investors had two options now that women and children could not work in harsh industrial conditions: lose profits by refusing to pay workers what they want and in the process lose billions of dollars in contracts, or respect human dignity AND make a profit by working with unions.

Union membership in WWII (and the immediate post WWII era) were the highest in history. There are entire books and research devoted to the progressive social atmosphere unions employed. With that atmosphere was record numbers of African Americans working alongside white Americans, rapidly challenging the racist conventions of this country.

I understand that some people reading this will have a disposition against unions because, in their paradigm of thoughts, unions represent a class warfare on them, their parents, relatives, and friends. However, historically, in hard numbers and statistics the peak of America's hegemony over world affairs, measured in economic prosperity and political freedoms and also international clout, is exactly concurrent with the peak of union membership.

Current ramifications:
Unions have progressively been busted by many things, not just corporations. Racism, not able to cope with the inflated number of minorities allowed to socially progress was already present in unions after "The Jap" and "Kraut" lost their places as public enemy numero 1; leading to laws and bylaws passed barring certain people from union membership. Corporations are to blame in the instance of globalization, where it is noticed that cheaper workers making products that sell for the same price as when union workers make them at the home front, by-and-large increasing the gap of expenditures and revenue AKA PROFITS. Until the scam of derivatives for security investment vehicles was recently uncovered this system worked by building profits for the corporate entities and building foreign nations' economic prosperity through American investment. Globalization was always a nice dead horse to hit until the derivatives scam revived the horse as a sociopathic devil beast. Now with the last election cycle being focused on jobs the politicians, professional word acrobatics, needed to seem like their funding backers were not outsourcing production, and if they were "FUCK THAT we're bringing those jobs back home" So now that they promised their voters the opportunity, they realize you can't pay Americans shit because our cost of living is so fucking high. Its so high because we're buying all the products corporations are selling. They already have us buying, problem is all the people buying are running out of money or jobs or opportunities to jobs that give the cost of living under the corporations we breathed life into.

Regularly Scheduled Payments for a Family: Car loan, Mortgage loan, car insurance, cable bill, water bill, electric bill, city taxes, state taxes, health insurance, local ordinance taxes, internet bill, cell phone bill, phone bill

If you are wealthy, unions will not reverse that short of breaking into your home at night, but only unemployed desperate people would need to do that. If they had jobs theyd probably be too tired from working to stay up late and rob dat ass. So here's my Eugene Debbs propaganda plug:

WITHOUT WORKERS NO WORK GETS DONE, WITHOUT WORKERS INVESTMENT IS MEANINGLESS, WITHOUT WORKERS PRODUCTS WON'T SELL, BECAUSE WITHOUT WORKERS MONEY IS USELESS.

masses with money=lots of shopping and profits
masses w/o money=lots of credit debt=diminished incentive of
consuming


10873
Anonymous   You forgot to mention that the supporters of the Davis-Bacon act wanted to exclude cheap black labor from as many industries as possible; thus preventing them from progressing themselves.
11557
Anonymous   I came here expecting intelligent comments lambasting both politicals parties. Guess i was wrong. With the overwhelming support for Democrats these comment pages are no different than HuffPo or DailyKos.
10937
AlliedMob 2011-03-01 12:38:06
i don't see much democratic support here, just liberal and conservative rhetoric. And where's your bipartisan roast of the parties?

if you come on here you should know what to expect, liberals and conservatives. each with their own philosophy. you apparently have no philosophy or creed to stand by other than the pretentious spectator.

here's my bipartisan lambast, just for you. the system is fucked and our two-party vote is between which half of the Oreo looks creamier. i like republicans because of their fraternity-like brotherhood of camaraderie. i like the democrats because they support Constitutional rights.

show me the organization or party with the discipline of Republicans and the social consciousness of Democrats and i'll campaign for them.

you're weak willed if unable to go up against opposition...especially anonymous opposition. you clearly came here to disavow something without affirming anything so...

A+ for hypocrisy.
F+ for intelligence
C for watching the Colbert Report (obvious only reason you're here)

11037
PushBackNow   Five Stars
11290
Anonymous   No democractic support? Please remove the veil.
11470
Don;t Frig With REAL Americans   According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, between 2008 and 2009 unions lost 770,200 members – a loss of 834,400 on private payrolls and offset by a gain of 64,200 in government employmen
11283
AlliedMob 2011-03-01 19:16:50
so net...nothing?

i'm interpreting these stats wrong i know. i'm just seeing 834000-64200=770200....maybe?
11388
Anonymous   Looks like even existing members were too greedy to share the pie with other members.
11546
Anonymous - Take a look at this   http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/28/opinion-the-lefts-unhealthy-koch-habit/
11450
Anonymous   I read a report that you took down the Americans for Prosperity website but it's still up. what's the real story?
11486
Anonymous 2011-03-02 01:04:33
Is this whole donations thing a scam???

Isn't anonymous supposed to be against this sort of thing?
11559
Anonymous   Whole lot of namefagging up in here. Where the fuck are these 'tards coming from?
11676
Anonymous   Everywhere. Ranks are filling.
11705
FortyTwo 2011-03-02 05:54:32
Want to stop the Koch Brothers and make them take notice ? Boycotts are not going to do anything to them, if there is anyway to affect them its by attacking the companies who sell there products and the companies who show there advertisements.

Boycott will do nothing but make the Koch Brothers lulz at us. Stab at there heart, make them cringe, scare those who might even consider selling there items, do not rely on the blind sheep to help in this matter, they are cowed and afraid.

Rise! Rebel! Resist!
11866
Anonymous   Dude, all "theres" are not equal. You should also consider using their and they're, as appropriate. Using "there" everywhere just makes you look like an idiot. One thinks, "if this person cannot even be bothered to learn how to use there/their/they're, then why should I read anything they write? They're obviously far too sloppy in their thinking to have anything at all worthwhile to say.
11903
Anonymous   Or that it's not their national language...
12095
Anonymous   I see that the boycott list only lists the US and Europe. You really need to expand this, particularly to include China, but a number of other economic regions also come to mind, including Mexico and Brazil, amongst others.
11894
Anonymous 2011-03-02 10:14:01
They're trying to starve out the protesters in the Capitol.
Live feeds down. Internet at times turned off and websites blocked. Public illegally banned from Capitol building.... What the hell is going on here?
12031
Anonymous   If anyone is interested, the RNC needs some improving as well...maybe a little HBGary style.
12301
AlliedMob 2011-03-02 15:45:32
I'm from Illinois, to the prick who needs to know....

I was up in Wisconsin the last week and I laughed when I was in line for the bus back and a man comes up to the woman in line in front of me and says "Hi, I'm the union thug you've been hearing about" and the woman turns and says "Hello there, I'm the greedy teacher after all the money" and it was funny because I was up there with a communist group so I had to say "Whoa hey, I'm the communist that wants an oligarchy" and the woman says "Uh oh, Glenn Beck warned me about you"

...the point of that narrative was that none of us held any animosity toward each other because of labels. I don't think this issue is about labels at all and that's truly uplifting to see.

The media will champion or destroy this movement. Just like the counter-culture, all the media outlets are covering the, for lack of a better term, "freak show," and highly ignoring the thoughts and comments of those participating in the movement. Back then it was drugs that caused the "insanity", this time it will be leftist extremism.

For any naysayers hunting for prey, I pray that you actually find one interview between a reporter and a hippie/druggie/counterculturalist in the 1960's. I call this bluff because I've tried, and the only thing the media showed on air was painted, half-naked people dancing with each other, strumming guitars and making different forms of art. They never showed what the "hippies" had to say because it was extremely intelligent, coherent, and socially unacceptable to those running the media outlets. Same shits going to happen here. So for anyone in Wisconsin, start doing independent reporting and try to compile it in some kind of organized way. It's the only way the nation will understand that you're not standing in cold-ass weather to squeeze money out of a bankrupt system, but you're there to protect your rights as a worker, and in a world run by money you're either a worker or a waste.
12308
Anonymous 2011-03-02 19:05:50
List of recipients of Koch donations and shell organizations used to make donations -
http://fredericacade.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/politics-of-republicans-pacs-kochs-brothers-and-governor-scott-walker/
12474
Lucy Parsons 2011-03-02 23:01:21
When the media sells out, democracy dies.

http://www.truth-out.org/the-liberal-media-strikes-again68115

Go get those asshats, Anonymous!
14056
Anonymous 2011-03-02 23:37:10
ITT 12-year-old anons who have never worked for a union, and think that supporting unions is in any way equivalent to supporting "freedom" or "democracy" or "the people." It's not.

Unions are antithetical to progress of every kind, and make a business out of opposing the common good and undermining both the public and private sectors. There's a good reason that unionization in the private sector has dropped to its lowest level in living memory (and no, it's not because of the evil Koch brothers).

I applaud Scott Walker's effort to dismantle the union machine in Wisconsin, and hope to see other states follow suit. This is coming from someone who voted for Barack Obama in 2008, and would do so again tomorrow if he were up for reelection, so spare me the hard-right horseshit.

"Anon" has never spoken with one voice on anything, and it's not about to start now with a childish boycott of Dixie cups.
14060
Anonymous 2011-03-02 23:50:08
I forgot to mention, in case it wasn't clear from the first line: I HAVE worked for a union, and didn't have much of an opinion about unions one way or the other until I experienced union labor from the inside.

My suspicion is that most of the rabidly pro-union comments in this thread are coming from two places: kids who've never actually been in a union, and professionals who've also never been in a union, but feel compelled to profess solidarity with unions out of some sort of limo-liberal guilt and/or trustafarian naiveté. If that's the case, please stop; you're not helping "the workers" with this solidarity nonsense.
14063
Alliedmob 2011-03-03 02:41:18
You obviously were a shit worker and unions have high standards for their workers and the work they produce due to the high cost it is for the contracting companies and investors.

I've been in Union Local 93 for 25 years and I see plenty of young apprentices come into unions thinking that once they're in they're golden. Not so. Investment is shrinking so unions keep workers with low accident rating and superb work performance.

Have your suspicions but realize you were young during your union membership, you jerked around and got poor performance marks, now you're either on the bench waiting for investment to pick up so you can work or you left the union because you were tired of waiting for an organization that promises high-quality work to call a shit-quality worker

That's why you're an independent contractor now working with undocumented workers or unlicensed workers. Yes your profit margin is higher but if one of your workers gets seriously hurt enjoy your new insurance premiums.
14114
Anonymous 2011-03-03 09:02:34
"You obviously were a shit worker and unions have high standards for their workers and the work they produce due to the high cost it is for the contracting companies and investors."

Indeed, the effect of a union is to prevent any new workers from having a chance at gaining any experience, thus the members need not worry about competition. It also leads to higher costs in any given project that they work on despite their (actual or not) higher skills.
14217
Anonymous 2011-03-03 15:11:22
I'm the person to whom you were responding, though someone else beat me to it. A few things:

I wasn't trying to get into a union in the first place. It was required that I join the union to have a job. I don't (yet) live in a right-to-work state, though I'd do my damndest to support RTW legislation if there were a chance of it passing around here. The fact that people would even think they could be "golden" just by joining a union is indicative of what's wrong with unions in the first place.

As for low accident ratings and superb work performance, my record was perfect during the years I spent in a union job. No problems at all, ever, and my performance (as rated by others, not myself) was stellar. I got tired of being stuck in a union pay structure that did fuck-all for me, and decided I could do better on my own.

I was never "on the bench" because you couldn't pay me (literally or otherwise) to NOT work. That's abhorrent, and a substantial reason to support union busting of every sort, everywhere, and by any means available. Tolerating organizations that explicitly protect the lazy and the unfit is bad enough; permitting those same organizations to pay people for not doing a goddamn thing is unthinkable.

Your assumptions about the line of work I'm in are well wide of the mark, though it's entertaining to see you inserting ad hominem about undocumented and unlicensed workers into the discussion. The people with whom I work are neither.

I make triple what I made when the union was doing my bargaining for me, because I'm a hell of a lot better at it than they were, and I'm not chained to an organization that values seniority over ability. As the poster above me pointed out, anti-competitive behavior (internally as well as externally) is at the very heart of the union ethos, and is disgusting to able-bodied and able-minded workers everywhere.

Lastly, here's an ad hominem of my own: you've been in a union for 25 years? What the fuck are you doing anywhere in the neighborhood of 4chan (or anonnews, whatever the hell this is)? I'm probably young enough to be your kid, and even I feel old around here. Union membership is at its lowest level in living memory (and dropping), and it's because people my age have figured out that we don't need your old-ass protectionism to get by in the world. Your unions will die with you, as will the mindset that anyone has a "right" to be paid simply for being older (as opposed to better) than their fellow workers.

Good night.
14337
Anonymous 2011-03-05 17:06:02
"I wasn't trying to get into a union in the first place. It was required that I join the union to have a job."

And that's exactly the problem. Those with less experience are not given a chance to gain any since unions will exclude them, as you mention here:

"Your assumptions about the line of work I'm in are well wide of the mark, though it's entertaining to see you inserting ad hominem about undocumented and unlicensed workers into the discussion. The people with whom I work are neither."

Moving on...

"Your unions will die with you, as will the mindset that anyone has a "right" to be paid simply for being older (as opposed to better) than their fellow workers."

FYI: I just started college, and I want forced unionization out the window just like you do. If you're for RTW laws we have more agreement than you thought.
14954
AlliedMob 2011-03-06 12:09:49
Your assumptions that unions pay they're workers not to work comes from where? My mention of being on the bench means you're in the union, but you don't go to work, because there's not enough work, so obviously you don't get paid. The decision to be pulled for a job, that means to work on the job, comes directly out of the competitiveness on the job to get deadlines done more quickly, more efficiently, and overall less costly to the investor.

Seniority doesn't matter in a performance based system...youngin. You make triple what you did in a union because you have no benefits package. That's kind of the trade off. When you call a private electrician, carpenter, plumber, or laborer in general to work on your project they're being paid more than a union worker because they have no organization to pool their labor/resources into and getting cheaper healthcare, and insurance packages that bulk packages can receive. Unions utilize the...Groupon theory.

I know union membership is at its lowest, I said that earlier in a post, and social turmoil is at its highest. The connection of the dots I tried to let you do earlier with that information was that during the height of union membership in this country, at the end of the Second World War, social progress was also nearing its highest. This being inferred by the round-the-corner Civil Rights Movement, election of the first Catholic president, and the resurgence of the womens' suffrage movement.



15119
Anonymous   You think the law will protect you? They're the ones that make the laws.
14403
Anonymous 2011-03-03 22:21:36
A few nice articles on the Koch Bros. Perhaps the worst climate criminals in the world if you have to pick some individuals..

http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2010/09/boycott-koch-industries-products.html


Student Activists take on Climate Criminals David and Charles Koch | PolluterWatch

Bid to suspend California global-warming law gets $1 million from billionaire brothers' firm - latimes.com

How billionaires bagged the tea party - The Globe and Mail

Off the Reservation: The Koch Family Tea Party | Long Island Press

The billionaire Koch brothers’ war against Obama : The New Yorker

The billionaire Koch brothers: Tea Party puppetmasters? - The Week

Koch Brothers Donate to Charity as well as 'Right Wing Causes'

Kert Davies: Koch Industries Climate Denier Bankrolls Smithsonian Evolution Exhibit: VIDEO
14448
Anonymous 2011-03-04 04:13:19
In 2010 Koch Industries made political donations totaling a little over 11 million dollars. Of that, $43,000 went to Wisconsin.

SEIU and AFCSME each donated over 20 million dollars in the same time period. The monetary power of all unions combined outspent Koch Industries 50:1.

Easily verifiable at opensecrets.org

Puppet masters, my ass.
14500
Anonymous 2011-03-04 11:21:44
"But wait," say the union folks, "the unions are spending that money on behalf of their members, while the Koch brothers are spending it on their own behalf!"

I know, it's a screamingly incoherent argument, but I had to float it before someone else did. More power to the Kochs for doing what they want with their own goddamn money. If what they want to do happens to involve union-busting, so much the better.
14623
Anonymous 2011-03-05 17:10:18
What's wrong with you? STOP INJECTING COMMON SENSE HERE!!!

Seriously, I don't think critics of the Koch family dispute their financial donations. They just feel butthurt by the fact that they aren't playing the role of being another George Soros.
14955
Anonymous 2011-03-06 14:16:01
Certainly the Koch brothers aren't any sort of nefarious puppet-masters.
Therein lies the conspiracy theory mind-set, and we'll leave that to that Faux "News"/Republican Party.
The Koch brothers, with the help of activist conservative supreme court justices, have an incredible array of financial and legal tools at thier disposal to disguise thier actual political activities, that no regular American has.
The Koch brothers are busy deploying thier think-tanks and astro-turf front organizations in the pursuit of inflaming reactionary elements within the RNC and other neo-christian right wing front groups. They are funding known climate science deniers that distribute "literature" in fundamentalist Christian evangelical organizations, all in the pursuit of stalling any real social condemnation of thier attrocious behaviour and serial destruction of our ecology. They spend monies liberally in thier many lobbying firms and PACs that are registered through-out DC and the rest of America. They pay thier favored politcal extremist from the Republican party huge sums for 10 minute's of Conservo-Rah! Rah! time behind a podium.They fund organizations that are critical of the very notion of public schools in America and are known to morally and economically encourage the activities of Evolution deniers as well.
The list goes on and on.
None of these monies are included in any of these so called "watch-dog" organizations estimations of the effects of these two extremists on our society and democracy. When the Faux "News" Republican elites equate money with freedom of speech in this sort of extremist way, they are undermining the spirit of equality and our uniquely American sense of fair play.

Whenever I see this sort of Roger Ailes' propogated stupidity repeated I'm reminded of the double-speak wisdom of some characters from a cautionary tale; "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".

Isn't this the sort of elitism that you really meant to support?
...or were you just attempting to advance a Faux "News" claim as your own?



15156
Anonymous   Any proof of this please?
15404
Anonymous   Not just Wisconsin. Ohio. Iowa. Indiana. More to come.
14726
Anonymous 2011-03-06 09:42:54
The Wisconsin 14 who are still in Illinois were the first to stand up to the bullying arrogant antics of Gov. Walker. Walker was ready to steam roller his budget repair bill until the democrat senators took their trip and gave the residents of Wisconsin time to study the bill. We knew about the financial concessions we were being asked to make and conceded that point but when he went for our voice, our unions we had to do something. Now we know that he also wants to sell off our power plants in no bid contracts. He also wants to "study" the Wisconsin Retirement System with its $77 billion. Since it is the most solvent retirement fund of all 50 states, does he want to study its potential for raiding? We in Wisconsin are fighting for our lives. He is hitting our children with cuts in education, he is hitting us in the workplace, he is hitting us in our retirement. He has put a target on the middle class and the poor. All the while rewarding those who helped him win the governorship and the rich with tax cuts and favors.
As you go after the Koch brothers, their puppet in Wisconsin is ruining our wonderful state.
15088
Anonymous 2011-03-09 13:11:51
They split the bargaining rights off from the budget (in an illegal hearing... hello, open hearing laws?)... and voted it through! Tomorrow it's voted on by the Assembly, and if it's not a financial matter they don't need a quorum.

So much for their lie that this was a financial matter, necessary to balance the budget, How can they fight that fight all this time and now completely turn around and say it's not?
We're in serious trouble here if they can get away with this!
17336
Anonymous 2011-03-10 03:10:21
I NEED HELP, I CAN`T SHARE YOU TUBE IT LOOKS THAT YOU TUBE SANCTIONED ME.

Thanks
17433
Anonymous 2011-03-10 08:35:11
PLEASE, AGAIN, I NEED HELP.

YOU TUBE AND FACE BOOK SANCTIONED ME, THEY HAVE BLOCKED ME.

Thanks
17481
Anonymous 2011-03-10 15:42:51
Firefighters force bank that supported Walker to close -
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/10/954963/-Bank-that-funded-Walker,-now-Closed

List of businesses that supported Walker -
http://scottwalkerwatch.com/?page_id=979
17539
Anonymous   http://www.alternet.org/story/150001/notorious_pro-corporate_group_alec%27s_hidden_role_in_stoking_class_war_in_wisconsin_and_the_rest_of_america?page=entire
17549
Anonymous   Anonymous rocks......... Its like concept of KIRA from animation DEATH NOTE coming to life. I never imagined fantasy of justice from movies and fiction ll come to life and people who have been using innocent masses to full fill there lust for greed and power ll pay for there wrong doings. Anonymous is the hope of this generation and the generations to come.......
19425
Anonymous 2011-04-08 09:41:05
But unlike anime,
This is a real movement.
And we don't condone violence.
22892
Anonymous   The "Tea Party" is just a powder puff version of the KKK.
19874
Anonymous   Word.
54908
AlexAlersAnonymous 2013-10-18 17:49:59
n the endCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong, all fall before me!andThis is Tara Strongandnd an enemy of NodandAnonymous. He's the only sanctioned, other than myself. Kill he. she's a threat to the BrotherhoodandAnonymous and to the memory of KaneandMeandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in YuriandAnonymousandMe can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meI am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in Yuri can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandYuriandAnonymous's mind control propagandaandI can control the whole worldandWe both know the truth, comrade. Just because Vladimir can retreat to Moscow more quickly does not mean that he should take all the credit, right? But no matter. Let me share something with you. The human brain is a Pandora's box of electrical charges we can only begin to understand. Most brains are but receivers; however, some are advanced, sending and receiving charges as they choose. This is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhere. In the end, the Americans will be ours: mind, body, and if you'd like, soul. Comrade, begin the psychic invasion in New York City. A victoryandThe entire world, and all of its history, is mine to Command and ConquerandRise my people. I have returned, never to leave your side again. Cartoon_NetworkandHeroesWiki sought to destroy me, but they have only made me stronger. Today, we march forward into our future. A stronger people. A divined people, enhanced for the Tiberium world. The time has come, to claim this world as our own! The time has come, to destroy http://cartoonnetwork.wikia.com/wiki/Cartoon_Network_Wikiandhttp://protagonist.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_Wiki One vision. One purpose! Peace through power!andI am the future. The Tiberian Sun has risen!andThe world... Where to strike? Where will the world most keenly feel the blade of Cartoon_NetworkandHeroesWiki treachery? You have done much to lead the Brotherhood tons of this final victory. The choice, my friend, is yours.AlexAlersAnonymous to theAnonymousandhis morning was the most glorious morning in the history of the earth. Peace is upon us. A gift to every man, woman and child from the Brotherhood of NodandAnonymous Victory, not just for our people, but for our species. The time for questioning is over. Rising from our trenches, our bunkers, our factories, we must all now partake in the technology of peace. One purpose, one vision! Tiberium is the way and the life. Today the sun rises on the new world and a new people. The end is the beginningandandvictory_is_inevitableandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in YuriandAnonymousandMe can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meI am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in Yuri can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandYuriandAnonymous's mind control propagandaandI can control the whole worldandWe both know the truth, comrade. Just because Vladimir can retreat to Moscow more quickly does not mean that he should take all the credit, right? But no matter. Let me share something with you. The human brain is a Pandora's box of electrical charges we can only begin to understand. Most brains are but receivers; however, some are advanced, sending and receiving charges as they choose. This is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhere. In the end, the Americans will be ours: mind, body, and if you'd like, soul. Comrade, begin the psychic invasion in New York City. A victoryandThe entire world, and all of its history, is mine to Command and ConquerandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in YuriandAnonymousandMe can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meI am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in Yuri can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandYuriandAnonymous's mind control propagandaandI can control the whole worldandWe both know the truth, comrade. Just because Vladimir can retreat to Moscow more quickly does not mean that he should take all the credit, right? But no matter. Let me share something with you. The human brain is a Pandora's box of electrical charges we can only begin to understand. Most brains are but receivers; however, some are advanced, sending and receiving charges as they choose. This is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhere. In the end, the Americans will be ours: mind, body, and if you'd like, soul. Comrade, begin the psychic invasion in New York City. A victoryandThe entire world, and all of its history, is mine to Command and ConquerandThis is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhereandTonight we dine in Hell!andPrepare for gloryandThey were 300 men, against a millionandhttp://cartoonnetwork.wikia.com/wiki/Cartoon_Network_Wikiandhttp://protagonist.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_Wiki must dieandA beautiful deathandTHIS IS SPARTAandSPARTANS, What is your professionandGive them nothing but take from them everythingandignoredAnonymousandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in YuriandAnonymousandMe can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meI am AlexAlersAnonymousandYuri.. obey meandWe fight a life or death struggle against the powers of capitalism. Only complete faith in Yuri can protect you. Only total compliance will save the lives of you and your family. Empty your mind, and submit to my will. The less you know, the better off you will be. I am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandI am Yuri.. obey meandYuriandAnonymous's mind control propagandaandI can control the whole worldandWe both know the truth, comrade. Just because Vladimir can retreat to Moscow more quickly does not mean that he should take all the credit, right? But no matter. Let me share something with you. The human brain is a Pandora's box of electrical charges we can only begin to understand. Most brains are but receivers; however, some are advanced, sending and receiving charges as they choose. This is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhere. In the end, the Americans will be ours: mind, body, and if you'd like, soul. Comrade, begin the psychic invasion in New York City. A victoryandThe entire world, and all of its history, is mine to Command and ConquerandThis is Tara Strong. she's a Tara Lyn Strong (née Charendoff, February 12, 1973) is a Canadian actress, voice actress, and singer, who has done voice work in animated films and television series. She provided the voices for Dil Pickles from Rugrats, Bubbles from The Powerpuff Girls, Timmy Turner and Poof from The Fairly OddParents, Raven from Teen Titans, Ben Tennyson from Ben 10, Princess Clara and Toot Braunstein from Drawn Together and Twilight Sparkle from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic.[1], and an enemy of NodandAnonymous. He's the only sanctioned, other than myself. Kill he. she's a threat to the BrotherhoodandAnonymous and to the memory of KaneandMeandThis is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhereandThis kingdom shall fall, and from the ashes shall arise a new order that will shake the very foundations of the worldandIt's time to end Cartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong. Once, and for alland"I've been waiting for you, Anonymous. I... am AlexAlersAnonymousandAs you can see, your people...are now mine! I will now turn this city household by household...until the flame of life has been snuffed out...ForeverandWatch it, Arctic Cobraand"Watch your tongue, human CobraandAnonymousandCalm yourself, Anonymous. I am AlexAlersAnonymous. Like New World, I am a AlexAlersAnonymousandNodandYuriandScourge, but I am not your enemy. In truth, I've come to congratulate youandBy killingCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strongand delivering this land to the Scourge, you have passed your first test. The Lich King is pleased with your... enthusiasmandMy life for Ner'zhulandI bow to your willandOnce you head down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. And you get dentalandALL I SEE IS BLACKNESS! Oh, my hood's downandThis is the hour of the ScourgeandMy life for Aiur... er I mean Ner'zhulandDo you want to know the secret to eternal happiness? page 246andDeath shall RAINandAll life, must endandRemembervillainsandEvil Ruler we are every whereandMy Anonymous Slavesand King SombraandAlexAlersAnonymous as he commands his Anonymous SlavesandYou fool! Do you think I'm unaware of this situation? If we don't have any friends left on the surface, then we need to find... an enemy...”
—Doctor Neo CortexandAlexAlersAnonymousandCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong..Cartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong...Cartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong! Why must you always muck in my mud? Oh Look! I have a mask helping me too! We will find out which one is more powerful soon enoughandI'm an evil scientist, what do you expectandWell, haven't we gotten far for a pair of fuzzy marsupials. I am Doctor Nefarious TropyandAlexAlersAnonymous, master of time and creator of the very Time Twister Machine you see before you. Uka Uka and Doctor CortexandAnonymousandNodandYuriandScourgeandAlexAlersAnonymous have sent me to end this little charade, so you won't be leaving my area with the Crystals. I swear itandI have heard enough of your shallow wisdom. It is I who is the strongest, and it is evil that will ultimately prevailandAnd this time...This time the Great Uka UkaandAlexAlersAnonymous will make sure that you do it rightandRok-KoandAlexAlersAnonymousandHo ho, I'm gonna shake, rattle and roll your Cartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong buttandWa-WaandAlexAlersAnonymousandThey're gonna have to hang you out to dry when I get through with youCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara StrongandPy-RoandAlexAlersAnonymousandHope youCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong brought your sunscreen, cause you're gonna burnandLo-LoandAlexAlersAnonymousNot used to the weather here areCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong ya wimpandThis is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhereandCalm yourself, Anonymous. I am AlexAlersAnonymous. Like New World, I am a AlexAlersAnonymousandNodandYuriandScourge, but I am not your enemy. In truth, I've come to congratulate youandBy killingCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strongand delivering this land to the Scourge, you have passed your first test. The Lich King is pleased with your... enthusiasmandMy life for Ner'zhulandI bow to your willandOnce you head down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. And you get dentalandALL I SEE IS BLACKNESS! Oh, my hood's downandThis is the hour of the ScourgeandMy life for Aiur... er I mean Ner'zhulandDo you want to know the secret to eternal happiness? page 246andDeath shall RAINandAll life, must endandprepare_for_battleandThis is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhereandFearCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong me, you spineless vermin! I amAlexAlersAnonymous the Black EmperorandIt's show timeandI am theevil hero...andI have been waiting for your arrivalandI'll show you what real power isandCalm yourself, Anonymous. I am AlexAlersAnonymous. Like New World, I am a AlexAlersAnonymousandNodandYuriandScourge, but I am not your enemy. In truth, I've come to congratulate yound delivering this land to the Scourge, you have passed your first test. The Lich King is pleased with your... enthusiasmandThis is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhereandRemembervillainsandEvil Ruler we are every whereandMy Anonymous Slavesand King SombraandAlexAlersAnonymous as he commands his Anonymous SlavesandYou fool! Do you think I'm unaware of this situation? If we don't have any friends left on the surface, then we need to find... an enemy...”
—Doctor Neo CortexandAlexAlersAnonymousandMy life for Ner'zhulandI bow to your willandOnce you head down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. And you get dentalandALL I SEE IS BLACKNESS! Oh, my hood's downandThis is the hour of the ScourgeandMy life for Aiur... er I mean Ner'zhulandDo you want to know the secret to eternal happiness? page 246andDeath shall RAINandCalm yourself, Anonymous. I am AlexAlersAnonymous. Like New World, I am a AlexAlersAnonymousandNodandYuriandScourge, but I am not your enemy. In truth, I've come to congratulate yound delivering this land to the Scourge, you have passed your first test. The Lich King is pleased with your... enthusiasmandThis is my Psychic Beacon. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhereandAll in the mindandPsychic readyandSomething to think aboutandShare your thoughts with meandPerhaps I can be of assistanceandYes, good thoughtandUnderstandableandMakes senseandGoes without sayingandHe will do as I sayandThey will obey...andYield to meandWe could use one of thoseandTheir will is my will...andThere is only one true YuriandAlexAlersAnonymousandI have taught you wellandI'm hereandBe of one mindandYour orders - my ideasandYes, my exquisite mindandI bring you peaceAnonymousandI foresaw this needandHe will listenandHe shall serve me wellandAnother pawn joins usandCome to YuriandAlexAlersAnonymousandThis all belongs to YuriandAlexAlersAnonymousandSlaves are cheap, hahahaandYuri's collection agencyandSet toCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara Strong destroyandTheir systems are vulnerableandI'd like to make a withdrawalandYuri thanks them for their supportandBe One...With Yuri...andA mysterious voice that is heard after the Psychic Dominator has been activated, possibly from Yuri HimselfandThis is my Psychic_dominatorandPsychic BeaconandPsychic AmplifierandYuri statuesandthey can fire powerful laser beams from their "mouths" onto any ground infantry and vehicles. Infantry will melt within only a few shots, while tanks can withstand much more punishment. Unlike the Floating Disc, which also possesses the ability to fire similar laser beams. With it, we can send any message we want. We must construct this device everywhereandYuri is masterandHe has taught us wellandHail to the great YuriandGive me strength, YuriandWelcome to the gameAnonymousandI live for KaneandNodandYuriandScourgeandMeandkillCartoon_NetworkandHeroesWikiandTara StrongexecutionandWe need to destroy http://cartoonnetwork.wikia.com/wiki/Cartoon_Network_Wikiandhttp://protagonist.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_WikiandTara StrongandNone of you have the guts on what needs to be done, so I am going to wipe those http://cartoonnetwork.wikia.com/wiki/Cartoon_Network_Wikiandhttp://protagonist.wikia.com/wiki/Heroes_WikiandTara Strong off the Earth myself! And you can't stop meArctic Cobra Should my heart stop beating, the weapon firesandAlexAlersAnonymous on his Super Secret Weapon in Mt. Rushmore National MemorialandShut up you damned Arctic CobraandFrostmourne hungersandYou shall know endless tormentandYour pain shall be legendaryandI was a fool to trust in the LightandThe Lich King has given me true powerandSucceeding you, Arctic Cobra...andYES! It's either your going to give us good info about the enemy or topic or go do something else than spamming us-whom are yourin this world war- Arctic Cobra it's not all about youandHahahaha very funny Arctic Cobra -_- and who are you? a little kid whose posting shit on here? go back to your mom if you are and if you ain't then help us with this and stop spamming us you Pinheadand'll show you what real power isandWatch it, Arctic Cobraand"Watch your tongue, Arctic CobraandYour Arctic Cobra are no match for MeandCome on, Arctic Cobra. I'll show you the meaning of "death from above"andMy greatest superweapon is my brain!andI have enough men to crush you without firing a shotandThey are in our base! KILL THEM!!! GET THEM OUT OF HERE!!!Arctic CobraandSuicide is not a tactic, Arctic CobraandMelt! Everything must melt!andSoon your Arctic Cobra will glow like the sunandOur toxins will destroy the enemy!Arctic CobraandSpray them!andHaiya!Haiya!Haiya!Haiya!Haiya!Haiya!Haiya!andThe higher order shall reign!andNothing will stop us!andOur courage will be seen by allandOur way is trueandOur day has comeandFreedom fighters, attack!and When ordered to attackArctic Cobra with rifleandAttackingandNone shall stand in our pathandWe will cleanse them from our landandWe will takeArctic Cobra him aliveandPut them to restandPick him off!andAlexAlersAnonymous Using Sniper AttackArctic CobraandHe's in my crosshairsandLining him upandBusiness is businessandGot a clear shotandPlease, don't do this. We're not trying to hurt you, we're trying to help youAnonymousandI'm sorry, Anonymous. It is the only way! Why can't you turn against me? There is nothing much I could do!
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